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Discussion 28529 "Airlocks can no longer be electrified"

Discussion in 'Gameplay Changes' started by Spookerton, May 14, 2020.

  1. Spookerton

    Spookerton Public Kōhai №1 Director of Administration Head Administrator Game Administrator IPC Species Maintainer Donator

    This thread is for slow feedback relating to the titled pull request, found here.

    Since we haven't done this in a while, go on ahead and make sure you don't earn warnings by reading the subforum rules.
     
  2. Imienny

    Imienny Laser Tag 2019 Participant

    ChaosAlpha, why you made this PR? i want to know your reasoning behind this PR and why you think it would improve bay gameplay.
     
    Blue_Bit and flying_loulou like this.
  3. ChaosAlpha

    ChaosAlpha Bartender

    - Copy-paste of my reasoning from the discord feedback channel: -
    I feel that feature is a relic of old ss13 that doesn't really have its place in the game anymore.
    As a hacking deterrent, it's clearly not that effective, as it is simply countered by gloves+multitool (and it actually isn't that effective even without those : there are 12 wires in current airlocks, only 1 of which triggers the "trap", that goes away after 30s. Unless you have low elec skills, which would re-randomize the wires occasionally, you should at most get shocked once in a round trying to hack doors, and that's not even guaranteed, you could totally find the correct wires to pulse/cut without getting yourself shocked at all). For antags, they don't even register as hacking deterrent, as pretty much all antags have a tool that allows them to either bypass the hacking entirely, or be immune to shocks (via stealing or acquiring gloves in another way potentially).
    As an antag tool, I feel the safety mechanism override does the job of being a "trap" better: it's more powerful, and isn't counterable by engineering wearing gloves all the round, but it's also more fair to the person stepping into the trap, as there is a way to spot that an airlock has its timing overriden (which you kinda need in tandem with safety override, otherwise you'll only catch door blockers by surprise, which I wouldn't mind tbf, people blocking doors are annoying). Safety override is also a trap that breaks after one use optimally, as opposed to electrifying which can stay on the whole round and be an annoyance.
    As statistics spookerton collected and showed me yesterday showed, I'd argue the feature is clearly not used in a healthy manner: as of this year, being generous, 2.125 doors were electrified on average per round, however its not distributed smoothly at all: some days had a wooping 95 airlocks electrified which I feel happened roughly all in the same rounds and to me that spells out griefing, while a large proportion of days have less than a dozen uses, often 1 or 2.
    Crew, especially the AI, shouldn't have the ability to turn airlocks into permanent annoyances that can only be dealt with by someone with elec skills+gloves. Antags have a much better trapping tool in the safety[+timing] overrides features, that is even more underused than shocking is (when it isn't griefed with that is).
     
    Jovaniph likes this.
  4. Jovaniph

    Jovaniph Donator

    I don't think it should necessary be removed. I don't think that a shocked door should be able to floor you. It doesn't make sense to me. It's a cheesy way to stop someone especially if you are the one being chased and gives an unfair advantage without effort. It's instant gratification for the AI if they were to stop someone, and it doesn't even have to be an AI to do it.
     
  5. Loaf

    Loaf Retired Staff

    Shock wires and shock functionality add a few things that are being ignored in favour of the pure mechanical effects.
    - They make unrestrained EMP or ion weapon use dangerous to careless players (such as Sec). This has factored into escaping from Sec twice for me alone.
    - They are a stealthy way for the AI to harm someone without resorting to airlock crushing, which is historically discouraged and rather harder to pull off in a methodical way.
    - They have a chilling effect on unrestrained hacking attempts and make it risky to do a wire hunt without gloves as a traitor as you may end up needing to explain your wound. Removing them removes -all- risk from hacking, which is rather more impactful than just removing the damage.

    If anything I would suggest buffing airlock shock damage rather than removing it, as your concerns seem to be oriented largely around it being ineffectual rather than actually problematic.
     
  6. Orelbon

    Orelbon Sol Gov Pilot

    Ironically, this the original discussion which started the whole chain. The AI being able to do too many things without downside.
     
  7. Loaf

    Loaf Retired Staff

    The AI has an extremely limited toolset when it comes to physically influencing the round, and electrifying doors isn't even in the mid or top tier out of those tools. They're a much broader and fiddlier topic to address.
     
  8. ChaosAlpha

    ChaosAlpha Bartender

    If anyone has ideas on how the mechanic could be made better instead, feel free to contribute.
    I wouldn't mind personally making the hack deterrent aspect less random, such as by adding shock damage to both pulsing and cutting the wires (which is also currently a bit inconsistent as it happens only with some of the wires).
    As for the AI, this should probably only remain an antag-only tool, as I don't really see why the AI of a ship should be allowed to electrocute people, known threats or not, it seems very risky as an available action as it might backfire and hurt a crew-member instead, when the safer alternative is just to bolt the door closed.
    Another compromise/option could be to make the feature temporary-only (possibly making the cutting of that particular wire have the same effect as the pulsing), with potentially changed base timers if needed, and keep the safety+timing mechanisms as the more permanent trap variant.
    I'll wait a few days to see if people have more feedback to give, and otherwise close this.
     
    Imienny likes this.
  9. CubecsMelody

    CubecsMelody Petty Officer First Class

    alright gamers, here are my thoughts.
    -Remove shocking doors for non-antag AI, its against the rules to do that anyways as far as im aware.
    -Make the shock hurt more without insulated gloves, its a military grade electronical blast door that can protect from the vaccum of space, extreeme atmospheric pressures and withstand temperatures wich resemble that of the SUNS surface. The damage however shouldnt be to much of an upgrade, since it could very quickly overflow medbay in a situation that is already very stressfull for Medical players and put people out of action for a long time.
    -maybe there are diffrent trap functions that could be implemented instead, such as opening when there is a significant pressure diffrence or just opening/closing randomly, potentially crushing peeps.
    Doors are a lot like humans, they are either closed or open.