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An independent Torch

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Virgil, Jul 30, 2018.

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  1. Virgil

    Virgil Senior Administrator Game Administrator

    Hey guys. The last two years of Bay have been a real blast, and our exploration into a strongly structured roleplaying environment has been interesting and informative on what our live playerbase really enjoys - which is a less structured environment! We've been assessing the feedback and numerous discussions had on the topic within the community, and come to a consensus on how we want to move forward. We intend to be using the same assets, but with a friendlier and less gotcha-heavy setting for the ships with an independent focus, rather than anything military or corporate. Here's the planned changes:
    • There will be no military presence on the ship
    • The Torch will be indepedently owned
    • Rank structure will be mostly job-based, rather than rank based
    • There will be lore changes to reflect all of this
    There'll be internal discussions on how to best achieve the technical aspects of these changes, and we estimate that the changes should be upon us within the next couple of weeks.
     
  2. Rowtree

    Rowtree Retired Staff

    my only response is

    [​IMG]
     
    Anticept, Butbu, tlc2013 and 6 others like this.
  3. Tylaaar

    Tylaaar Bartender

    This is a joke, right?
     
  4. Banditoz

    Banditoz Senior Enlisted Advisor

  5. TheLier

    TheLier Senior Enlisted Advisor

    If this is true, then I'm very tempted.
     
  6. Miraviel

    Miraviel Retired Staff

    I'm only here to play milRP and I love the dynamics between the "serious, organized" Fleet and the "flexible, laxer" EC. I don't mind what happens to NT but if either of these ones goes, I have no motivation to play here anymore. Not like anyone cares about one player but I'm just devastated beyond reason.

    I'm incredibly sad this came up just like this and it's a promised change that'll happen during the next weeks. I guess I'll enjoy my leftover time here before it runs out.
     
  7. Levi Gold

    Levi Gold Chef

    The Funny thing is when the Torch was introduced I didn't like it because I was used to the Exodus and like the civ setting. Now that this is being introduced I don't like it because I have gotten used to the pseudo mil/government rp and I like it now. Imagine that.
     
    EmGee, Za_Redman, Cakey and 1 other person like this.
  8. Dopu

    Dopu Bartender

    Can we get some clarification here, before it drops?

    I wont lie and say i'm thrilled, this will lose people I like playing with and further dissolve the RP environment i fell in love with beyond the point it has already degraded over the previous months. Not the place for that discussion.

    But clarity may help, I guess.
     
    EmGee likes this.
  9. Virgil

    Virgil Senior Administrator Game Administrator

    We're holding off for now because we're trying to figure out what people actually think about this. We'll give this a few days to sit and take another look at the feedback and reactions.

    If it's as negative as it has been initially we'll scrap the idea and just keep what we've got.
     
    EmGee likes this.
  10. Gabol

    Gabol Chef

  11. Finalsong

    Finalsong Retired Staff

    I'm glad we've decided to go this direction. I'm hopeful this solves the issues we're having, and I'm excited to see how this ends up. I understand that some of the more military-minded people might be unhappy with this change-- But I think this is for the best. Remember, friends: This is a change of the same magnitude as the one that brought us in here in the first place. I will be sticking around for a time, so if the people making this happen want my help, I'd be happy to give it.
     
    Butbu likes this.
  12. Ispil

    Ispil Petty Officer First Class

    Perhaps it would've been better to announce this when a bit more work on what it would overall look like was done? Lest you make the same mistake as made with the Torch?
     
  13. Dopu

    Dopu Bartender

    I almost exclusively play a very sane NT affiliated character, and having invested so much there, the absence of NT or I suppose, a similar entity at the very least, would throw me for quite a loop.

    Bay has been adapting to many rapid alterations that change all sorts of things from the graphics to the mechanics, to the story elements in play... maybe we should take some time to polish, heal, and recover from these 'growing pains' as it has been called, every single time anyone objected to anything since the end of april?
     
  14. afterthought

    afterthought Retired Staff

    Don't poll. Talk it over with a few people you trust, sleep on it, and just make a decision.

    This has been talked about and polled and discussed ad infinitum. There isn't anything left to say here.

    We're skeptical of all change because who knows how it's going to work out. We have only the vaguest idea of what these changes would look like. We have lots and lots we can say and argue about, lots invested in the current setting, but none of it will help you make a decision here.

    Man up. Make a choice, lay down the law. Just the act of making a choice, whatever it is, would be a welcome relief from the circle of nostalgia/milRP love debate we've had here for ages.
     
  15. Kerbal22

    Kerbal22 Bartender

    this seems like it would be a positive change

    if you'd undo all the other bikeshed things that have been shoved in, like mechanical skills, it might actually bring players who left back.
     
  16. Syndikate

    Syndikate Sol Gov Pilot

    I'm just going to say that while I really, really enjoy the Torch as is. I likely wouldn't have supported it being implemented if I was around when it was being proposed as it was simply done in a way that ended up fucking over so many people's characters. Staff's managed to /repeatedly/ implement/manage things badly in a way that fucks up people and their characters, namely how NT was done, Marines, and Resomi. Given that, I honestly /really/ don't trust the staff, regardless of the people involved to do this without again ,fucking over so many people and their characters.

    So really, really hard no.

    And ontop of that I, as I said /really/ enjoy the Torch as is, even if I acknowledge that it's far from perfect and /really/ needs some attention. I just don't in any way see this as being a good way to give it that attention

    tldr: Stop trying to make big swooping changes that piss half the community off. Just add to the server ffs
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
    Blue_Bit, Serveris, mcspizzy and 2 others like this.
  17. Cakey

    Cakey Sol Gov Pilot

    Alright, going to re-iterate what I said earlier I guess.
    I'm sure many of you know me as someone who wholly plays Fleet, and while sometimes I do play as either a member of the EC or a civilian, my biggest enjoyment out of Bay is the MilRP that exists exclusively on this server within SS13. While some exceptions exist Bay is the only active place that focuses on roleplay, and without roleplay the concept itself is meaningless. Of course, the thought of a fully military vessel sounds great, as I'm sure many people believe a fully civilian vessel sounds, but I personally believe that none of those ideas really allow the full extent of our community to enjoy themselves.
    Having always been a firm believer of branch diversity and branch conflict, I cannot repeat how important the concept is, not to the setting, but to the community and the players. While there will always be gray areas within lore, within mechanics, etc., having the ability for the player to choose what sort of playstyle they want is key to making everyone happy to some extent. Sure, maybe a majority of players don't play MilRP, but having the diverse selection has never hurt anyone, and sometimes its even enjoyable to experience how each branch interacts with each other.
    Saying this not as a Fleet player, but as a player in general, going forward with any singular branched setting would be detrimental to the diverse group of a community we have, and that can be said for any decision made within this context. Full fleet would see most, if not all civilian players quit, and they make the choice to not play them within the setting because most of them don't enjoy playing military. Full civilian would see most, if not all fleet players quit, because they come to Bay to play the milRP that you can't get anywhere else. This was the same thing that happened with the removal of marines, and is controversial because of the exact same reasons.
    Regardless, If you were to go forward with a singular branched setting, you'll most likely see players quit (I know I will).
     
  18. Kerbal22

    Kerbal22 Bartender

    Players quit because of the milRP. I enjoy MilRP. I left. Came back. Left again.

    Players will also quit because of normal RP. Players quit regardless.

    People can't do MilRP properly so that all enjoy it.
     
    UsuallyBurk likes this.
  19. Raro Meteoro

    Raro Meteoro Bartender

    I want to start off by saying that actually managing, running and trying to come up with content for a community while trying to please everyone or at least a wide part is extremely difficult and that not only you Virgil, headmin in particular but the entire administration and moderation team deserve my respect for keeping the server afloat at all.

    With this said, I'd like to state my personal opinion that while I'm against the change itself, I'm even more against the format in which it is being implemented. Let's not beat around the bush here and address what is usually the main concern in heated discussions with Bay: the lack of playerbase. By making such an extreme change to the RP and overall environment of the server without ONE definitive discussion thread, ONE binding poll, or even any kind of tentative warning that this change is about to be unilaterally implemented is basically paramount to telling the playerbase that you do not care what they think. By doing this you're showing that the administration team chooses not to seek direct input on changes. In fact, it shows that the administration team thought that the playerbase's opinion in general was more important when it came to floor tiles and catwalks rather than something as large as this (as was evidenced by the days long poll for catwalks that was even advertised in server). By doing this you're marginalizing and downright ignoring a large part of YOUR playerbase for what is essentially no reason. There is little to no reason for you ignore the playerbase's input in this frankly almost disrespectful way when you have showed that you're all technically and competently capable of at least holding a poll for discussion. When you present the change like this, you're not guiding the playerbase to better RP, you're bending them to your will and expecting that large part of them won't simply tell you to screw off and go somewhere else.
    So, I'd absolutely beg for you to back off on the sudden and immediate nature of this change, have an even longer discussion about it, and, if you're absolutely sure that it is a step that NEEDS to be taken due to it being beneficial for the community, then you should slowly ease the community to the idea, not force it upon them.

    As a side note, this stinks of playing catch up to Aurora, as removing the one main distinctive role play element from the server will make it nothing but an alternative, and considering recent events and opinion of the own staff, not only will it degrade bay from a distinctive choice to an alternative, it will be an inferior alternative at that. If it's not broken, don't try to fix it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
    Achroknight, tlc2013, Sbotkin and 2 others like this.
  20. dreadweaver

    dreadweaver Bartender

    Removing the main aspect of the server that made it unique and set it apart from literally every other SS13 server (not counting CM and the others that got nothing to do with space stations) on the hub (and the ones not on the hub)?

    Interesting move, I suppose.
     
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