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Ban Appeal - sashkaa - kalvirgie

Discussion in 'Denied Appeals' started by _sashkaa, Apr 12, 2019.

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  1. _sashkaa

    _sashkaa Assistant

    BYOND Key:sashkaa

    Character name at time of banning: Scott Arthur

    Reason you were banned: (The image has all the info) [​IMG]

    Reason you should be unbanned:

    So I have a really hazy memory of me getting banned - I was on medication which (as a side effect) also hampers your ability to create memories. I was also on a pretty long session of binge-gaming bay12, (without incident until then) so everything just sort of blends into itself.

    I am going to try to reconstruct it somehow - the order of events/events themselves may be fucked up. I have no intent to deceive, and I admit my wrongdoing.

    I was the CE. I was relatively green on bay12. This sounds retarded, but I don't think the server was high pop when the round started (could be wrong on this) and I learn the best as I go, and I enjoy leading.

    The ship's sensors were reported as having a faulty reading (with it being a suspected bug, as described in LOOC). I worked it into RP, took my EVA tech outside to the sensor suite, and we "checked it out" and "performed diagnostics". Then we went back, reported all as green and that's it. I don't remember what I did until a band arrived - I feel new to bay12, and I thought that maybe this was one of the merchants that come dock at times just trying to spice the round up. Some time later, one of the band members got lost in the maint tunnels.

    here, things get really hazy for me

    We had some power grid losses/incorrect RUST/Engine setups. Our nacelles blew up on both sides at roughly the same time, a bot or the AI reported highly possible sabotage, along with the same EVA tech who helped me with the sensors earlier. I immediately told the CO. They ignored that. Some of the visitors were also emagging doors, and I believe some of them had weapons or had murdered a sec officer. The CO's idea was to just let them go (my opinion here is they should've been detained until after an investigation was concluded by security, which makes sense for a navy vessel). I tried working the sensor bug and power malfunctions into the RP as possible sabotage or hostile jamming, even talking to the XO about the CO maybe being a traitor.

    Now, here comes major fuckage - the EVA tech, while repairing the nacelle spotted a ship. Then he saw it was full of guns. He boarded the ship against my orders. I think I told him multiple times to come back, well, at least twice for sure. After that, I went out to check out the ship myself - not sure about this part from an RP perspective, I had training in EVA (consciously made the decision to get both that and extra skills in close combat and weapons), and my character was supposed to be a 50 year old scott who does things his way, not going exactly by the orders, but getting the job done. We successfully got onboard the empty ship, and we saw a lot of military gear. We welded ourselves in and reported it. We even caught some of the "band members" on the ship's intercom. At this time security was battling the mercs who were boarding the Torch. I requested for an immediate backup to the merc ship from security - which never came. The EVA tech then started placed a tracking buoy on the enemy vessel, and then started ransoming the vessel back to the mercs (it did fit his ingame character). I don't remember much about this, I don't think I tried to stop him, or if I did, I wasn't succesful. I realized that by boarding the ship, I have most likely broken bay12 rules anyway.

    Then kalvirgie messaged me "Hey, you've got a minute?". I admitted I fucked a lot, but I wanted to defend myself, because I believe I did have a reason to believe IG that the visitors were suspicious, which seemed like his main point.

    Anyway, if I was wrong in believing the visitors had reasons to be hostile, I will play "dumber" characters if my ban gets removed. I am not interested in stirring up trouble, as bay is the most enjoyable server for me. I will definitely not go out and board enemy ships as an engineer - and yes, my character was quite a Mary Sue now that I think about it.

    This was surprisingly coherent, given that I don't remember anything else but playing CE and Pathfinder for inhuman sessions from the time period there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  2. Virgil

    Virgil Head Administrator Game Administrator Community Moderator

    I'll be honest with you. Your story, whilst comprised of sentences that individually probably mean something, don't tell a clear story at all.

    The facts that we know:
    1. At some point, the merc ship was spotted, and your character called it hostile shortly after. At that point in time, the merc ship had done nothing to warrant that declaration.
    2. At some point, much later on, you and another engineer boarded the ship.

    You actually tried to argue in adminPMs that because they were mercs your character had reason to be suspicious... despite not ICly knowing they were mercs. I had to ban you because despite repeating several times that you had no IC reason to do what you did, you insisted that because you OOCly knew they were bad guys you could ICly call them out as bad guys.

    Before I consider unbanning you - I'd like you to tell me exactly what rules you broke, and how you'll avoid breaking them in future.
     
  3. _sashkaa

    _sashkaa Assistant

    I'll be honest with you. Your story, whilst comprised of sentences that individually probably mean something, don't tell a clear story at all.

    That is true, I explicitly said that I don't have a clear memory of the event. Thus I ask you to provide your version of the story.

    >1. At that point in time, the merc ship had done nothing to warrant that declaration.


    I believe that this is not true. My EVA technician said he saw weapons aboard. He also saw it with it's airlock open when he was repairing the breach. I wrote about this.

    >2. At some point, much later on, you and another engineer boarded the ship.

    I am not sure whether this was against RP or not.

    ↪ 10.2. Related to the previous point, when something needs to be done that is not in the field of your character, ask someone else to do it. An example would be that you shouldn't treat yourself or give yourself implants when you don't have medical expertise.

    As also described in ↪ 14.3. Refrain from performing the duties of another job unless doing so is necessary for survival, or within reason if there are no other personnel available to do so.

    ↪ 2.3. Your character should act with common sense and should react to situations realistically. - I had EVA and weapons training, so I came over to the already secured ship (which was already cleared by the EVA tech)

    I have asked security to send over two officers with voidsuits. They did not arrive. My character took it into his own hands to save the ship.

    You actually tried to argue in adminPMs that because they were mercs your character had reason to be suspicious...
    despite not ICly knowing they were mercs.

    Was that really what I said? I tried to argue that the visitors had hostile intent, not that they were mercs. I had multiple reasons to think that IC, as I have written multiple times now.

    I had to ban you because despite repeating several times that you had no IC reason to do what you did, you insisted that because you OOCly knew they were bad guys you could ICly call them out as bad guys.

    Please, would you kindly get the chat logs from the 8th of April at 20:43? That is most likely not what I claimed. If I did, I do not stand behind that now, and apologize.


    In fact, I checked over the rules again - and in this instance, I do not believe I have broken a rule. I have tried acting within reason for the given moment, except possibly the final moment where my EVA Tech started ransoming the enemy vessel (even though I tried to stop him, I should've restrained him).

    Furthermore, I try to be honest with you, I try to be rational with you, and I respect you as an equal. I only ask that you be the same with me.

    Before I consider unbanning you - I'd like you to tell me exactly what rules you broke, and how you'll avoid breaking them in the future.

    That was not a kind sentence. You being a member of staff of a videogame community that I enjoy playing on doesn't make you above me. This is also referencing the communication we've had on Discord (I apologize for my tone there, I was getting frustrated). I do not know what rules I broke, that was one of the purposes of this post, as I went over the rules multiple times, and I don't remember many important details of the section.

    It is very likely that I remember the order of the events wrong - if that is indeed true, then I drop my case in most points.

    If you have documentation of my ban besides those two points, I'd like you to take the time to write it out and respond to me in a civilized, kind manner, as I try to do to you.

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  4. _sashkaa

    _sashkaa Assistant

    Bumping.
     
  5. Virgil

    Virgil Head Administrator Game Administrator Community Moderator

    I've assigned this appeal to @Persona E, who will now be reviewing and handling this appeal.
     
  6. Persona E

    Persona E pp head Game Administrator

    Hello. I've taken some time to read the logs from this round and have a good picture of what happened.

    It doesn't look good that despite identifying which rules you broke, you seem to think this was still an okay course of action. We are looking for some way to know you won't repeat this mistake, and this isn't it.

    Kal_Virgie: What you're doing is using OOC information to influence your IC decisions, which is not allowed.
    _sashkaa: No.
    _sashkaa: I was using common sense. Only ship we know of? Mercs? Something is up. The capttain shou;d've realistically atleast delayed their exit.

    You did break the rules. If you think this course of action was okay, I can't lift this ban. How do we know you won't do this again?

    Staff, including Virgie, are volunteers, and calling us uncivilized isn't going to get you anywhere. Please cut that out.
     
  7. _sashkaa

    _sashkaa Assistant

    ̶W̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶r̶u̶l̶e̶s̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶ ̶I̶ ̶b̶r̶e̶a̶k̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶n̶?̶ ̶A̶s̶ ̶I̶ ̶p̶o̶i̶n̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶s̶e̶ ̶r̶u̶l̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶c̶r̶e̶t̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶e̶r̶p̶r̶e̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶m̶u̶l̶t̶i̶p̶l̶e̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶s̶.̶ ̶D̶i̶d̶ ̶I̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶M̶a̶r̶y̶ ̶S̶u̶e̶?̶ ̶-̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶m̶s̶ ̶m̶o̶s̶t̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶l̶y̶.̶ ̶B̶u̶t̶ ̶I̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶m̶e̶m̶b̶e̶r̶ ̶O̶O̶C̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶l̶e̶d̶g̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶f̶l̶u̶e̶n̶c̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶I̶C̶ ̶d̶e̶c̶i̶s̶i̶o̶n̶s̶.̶
    ̶
    ̶E̶D̶I̶T̶:̶ ̶I̶ ̶q̶u̶o̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶r̶u̶l̶e̶s̶ ̶2̶.̶3̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶1̶4̶.̶3̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶w̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶r̶u̶l̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶f̶l̶i̶c̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶s̶i̶t̶u̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶,̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶r̶u̶l̶e̶s̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶I̶ ̶b̶e̶l̶i̶e̶v̶e̶ ̶I̶'̶v̶e̶ ̶b̶r̶o̶k̶e̶n̶.̶
    ̶
    ̶S̶t̶a̶f̶f̶,̶ ̶i̶n̶c̶l̶u̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶V̶i̶r̶g̶i̶e̶,̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶v̶o̶l̶u̶n̶t̶e̶e̶r̶s̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶a̶l̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶u̶s̶ ̶u̶n̶c̶i̶v̶i̶l̶i̶z̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶s̶n̶'̶t̶g̶o̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶.̶ ̶P̶l̶e̶a̶s̶e̶ ̶c̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶.̶
    ̶
    ̶V̶i̶r̶g̶i̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶r̶e̶s̶p̶o̶n̶s̶e̶ ̶l̶o̶o̶k̶s̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶d̶i̶r̶e̶c̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶h̶i̶l̶d̶.̶ ̶H̶e̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶r̶r̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶a̶l̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶s̶p̶e̶c̶t̶s̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶w̶e̶l̶l̶.̶

    EDIT 2: Look, I know how this all looks. But think of it from my perspective - I don't remember what actually happened in that round. I remember being pretty pissed off because kalvirgie didn't seem to understand what I was trying to tell him, and banned me anyway. I made a lot of mistakes along the way. Then I go on to make a lengthy ass-ban appeal, put effort into it, he speaks to me like I'm below him, both here and on ds. It pissed me off . Then I looked up the rules, and I don't understand them.

    Now, just disassociate yourself from this and look at it from the outside.

    1. I am not sure what I did.
    2. It is possible I am in the wrong.
    3. I was being spoken down to.

    You can see how it can frustrate one. The worst thing is to admit that you are wrong to someone who feels like they're above you.

    I have no interest in stirring up trouble. I enjoy the HRP. I definitely fucked up in at least the Mary Sue. I remember having a shitton of reasons for believing they were hostile. If that's not true - it is likely because I overplayed the game and stopped thinking about my decisions that much. I won't have time to play ss13 at all anymore, and If I'll do - I can promise you that I'll keep my guard up more, and not play that much. If you tell me which rules I broke, I promise I won't do it again.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  8. Persona E

    Persona E pp head Game Administrator

    It doesn't seem like you understand which actions were bad, why they were bad or which rules they broke, so I'm denying this appeal. You may reapply in two weeks or at Virgie's discretion.
     
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