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Suggestion Bring back Changeling, Ninja, Xenos, Meteors, Wizard, and Diety into the Antag secret rotation pool

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Feedback' started by listendudeiwannadie, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. I think Bay needs a serious overhaul of new antags. Now, I'm not a coder or a developer, however, I do have immense respect for them because they help keep the server alive. So, before you say "CODE IT YOURSELF LOSER," lemme clarify I don't code or develop these things. It's a suggestion in the suggestions section. So don't be that guy.

    The reason I'm making this suggestion is because I've noticed in the past month or so, the antags on Bay have been so bland. Everybody almost always votes secret, mercenary, or extended. Now, when people vote secret, it's usually mercenary, raider, traitor, or extended. Just those four usually. Now, raider alone is a buggy game mode. I have encountered quite a few bugs when coming across it, but the most prominent bug I've encountered is you start off with a pistol in your uniform, and no matter where you are, you could drop that pistol anywhere. You click your uniform, and that gun instantly teleports to you. I tried to inform people, and they said "Oh yeah, this is a known bug." Like... why have a buggy, glitchy, game mode? In my experience, and I've played raider quite a few times, raider also only consists of four crackheads who have little to nothing to work with, and their only gimmick ends up being "Storm the Torch, kill people, take hostages, run away, negotiate for 3 hours then die." How in the world is that fun? Mercenary consists of the same thing as well, except you have a lot more to work with. However, Mercenary ends up being "Argue with the Torch for an hour or two before finally starting to murder people and then failing miserably," and then, even at the end of the round of mercenary, people complain about it (probably because they die, but the ones I usually see die are the ones who rush the mercs because they want to be involved with the antag.) Now, maybe traitor is good. You're solo, so you got stuff to work with, right? True, yes, you do. However, you can only be traitor for so long before you run out of gimmicks and your only gimmick ends up being "Plant a bomb... or... take a hostage... or maybe kill people I don't know. Then spend the rest of the round in the Brig." Now, traitor is a really fun game mode, it gives players the opportunity to do what they want on their own, or with a partner, but it gets really, really bland, for both parties. Now, you may say, 'Disable antag.' Okay, you disable antag. Then you realize, you're a doctor who maybe deals with an engineer who gets a radiation boo-boo every once in a while. That's it. Wow. So fun. The point is, Bay really needs variety. Bay needs antags that engage everybody, not just security or that occasional unlucky explorer who gets taken hostage.

    Back when I was at Bay in late 2017/early 2018 (I think,) all of these game modes were enabled, hell, even Calamity was too. Great times. I remember playing almost every single gamemode, and loving it. I think the only one I didn't enjoy was Wizard, but I still believe Wizard should come back because people tend to do great things with that gamemode. Maybe a few people complained about an antag, or maybe some dickweed abused a certain exploit, but that shouldn't be grounds for removing the gamemode. If it were, then why is Mercenary still here? I've seen so many people complain about that gamemode in OOC before and after the round, and with Raider there is so many exploits you can use, it's insane. I remember I managed to teleport a pistol with me into prison once because of that gun teleportation exploit, and no matter how many times they got me, they just couldn't cease the pistol I had.

    Let's get into the Antags however, and look them over, yes? Okay, let's start with...

    Changeling: Why it should be brought back, and what would I improve about it if I could
    Oh man, what a fun gamemode. The setting on Bay is Perfect for Changeling. A Government ship full of explorers, passengers, and advanced doctors that sends out a small team of explorers to other planets. Like, how is that NOT perfect for Changeling? You go onto an Arctic world, split up into multiple teams of two, oh wait, one goes missing. And then another, and then another. And then maybe a distress call is sent out, and Security comes to look. Security splits up, and you take one out, become that guard, and come back, report nothing. And then you torment the rest of the exploration crew and guards, find a way back on the Torch, maybe you slip away through the vents as a monkey. Now you have a real xenobiological threat aboard the crew, and everyone is panicking, nobody trusts each other. It just becomes a great scenario that really engages the crew and turns the Torch into just pure panic. Or alternatively, a not so robust ling gets caught, and an experienced surgeon gets the chance to work on a Ling, and to really examine the ins and outs of it. Would be interesting. Now, let's get into what I'd change about Ling. Oh boy, theres a lot. First off, remove that OP as fuck sting that blinds, mutes, and suffocates, and separate it into different stings, like suffocation sting, mute sting, deaf sting, blind sting, that all need to be bought, that way, it's harder to get a hold of them. Also, add an armblade for ling. I vaguely remember Ling being really powerless without that sting. The Ling needs a weapon he can rely on that isn't the Sleepy-Pen x5000. Also add a final form, where if the Ling absorbs enough people, or gets enough genetic points, they can enter some sort of horrific final form to terrorize the crew if they don't stop him quick enough. Finally, add a non-lethal way to steal DNA, so Passive-Lings can fuck with the crew without harming people if they wish to.

    Ninja: Why it should be brought back, and what would I improve about it if I could-
    Ninja is a great gamemode. You're literally a Ninja. Like, what isn't fun about that? You can throw shurikens, you have an ultra-stealthy suit that can make you go invisible and teleport, and survive in space, you have a built in energy katana, built in emag, and just so much fun gadgets to play with. It's also one of the few antags that 9 times out of 10, won't end with you being held until transfer in the Brig because of your suits fail safe. And yet, Ninja still isn't OP because he can be killed just as easy as anyone else. There is just so much potential on what you can do in this gamemode, that it actually really upset me when I heard they removed it. Now, I'm not exactly informed of Ninjas exploits/bugs, whatever, but I do know one thing I'd do if I could - I'd give the Ninja a partner because I noticed that whenever a Ninja dies, the crew usually goes "...thats it?" I think it could be really beneficial to the gamemode personally, however I do know a lot of people would disagree with that change. Regardless, while Ninja is almost always hostile, I've seen some damn creative rounds with Ninja on bay that justifies bringing it back imo.

    Xeno: Why it should be brought back, and what would I improve about it if I could-
    Xenos is great. It engages everybody, it's based off the movie Alien, and the build up and escalation of Xenos is intense. I remember a round of Xenos where they started in Security, took almost all of the security guards down and used them to birth more Aliens, and then they slowly spread into other departments. This resulted in departments barricading up, hiding in lockers, gearing together, and then eventually an Emergency Response team was called, and havoc resulted. Overall, it was a scenario that engages everybody within the crew, even after they are dead, by having them become either apart of the ERT, or an alien. Why was this removed?! This is great! Now, when it comes to exploits/bugs, I don't know much about it. I only played Xeno about twice, one of them was in Calamity, but I can still say - Great gamemode. I'm not sure what to change about it, I think that's something all of Bay would have to discuss rather.

    Meteors: Why it should be brought back, and what would I improve about it if I could-
    Meteors is another fun one. As someone who loves playing engineer, or an EMT, I love the idea of rescuing injured civilians, or paving the path for my crewmembers to be safe. It's the kind of atmosphere that really involves everyone on the ship. There isn't really an antag - It just gets everyone to do their job. Security directs everyone to safe areas, Command commands people, engineering and medical do their job, and science/research try to counter it all, while civilians stay in safe zones and deal with getting injured by the meteors. It's honestly great. I wouldn't change anything about this gamemode. It's like extended, but you still deal with hazards.

    Wizard: Why it should be brought back, and what would I improve about it if I could-
    Wizard is a great gamemode, but personally, not my cup of tea. I'm still including it on this list however because I've seen some pretty damn creative wizard rounds from players on Bay, passive and hostile. Wizard is great because it's sort of a medium-esque antag. You can be friendly, or you can be an absolute dick. There isn't really an inbetween. I'm not exactly the best at wizard because I wasn't good with the gimmicks, but I've had great enough interactions with Wizards that would personally for me justify putting it in this suggestions list. I wouldn't change anything about it as well.

    Diety: Why it should be brought back, and what would I improve about it if I could-
    Now I'm not exactly caught up on the story with Diety - As in, I don't know if it's still in the secret rotation, but regardless if it is or isn't, it's still gonna be here. Diety is so much better than Cult personally. Cult members have a lot more direction because they have a higher power to listen to that can see all and give powers with enough members and force. It's honestly great. I think Cult should be removed, and this should be the "new Cult" if that makes sense. My only complaint however is that Diety Gods who meme their members should be punished because it's frustrating when you wanna play a serious round, but your leader memes around and ends up fucking you over. Other than that, solid gamemode.

    That concludes this list for me personally - Like I stated in the beginning, the antag rotations for secret, which is what is almost always voted 90% of the time, is just so damn bland on Bay. Something needs to shake it up. There needs to be more interactions, better interactions. Just getting at least one of these gamemodes back in the rotation would even be great. Personally, Ninja, Meteors, Xeno, and Ling are my favorite modes. I never understood why they were removed in the first place, yeah, the antags have their flaws, but so do Raiders, Mercenaries, Headrevs. I don't understand why we have these basic cookie cutter gamemodes where the objective is to go Call of Duty on the crew, and slaughter everyone, over actual creative gamemodes. I hope the staff take some sort of action, or at least some people agree with me on this. I think Bay really needs one of these gamemodes. Thanks for reading, sorry for any potential typos, repeated words, etc.

    Let me know what you think, and if you could bring back one of these gamemodes into the antag rotations, which would you prioritize the most?

    PS - Sorry if I sound like an idea guy - Remember, I got immense respect for the coders and devs for Bay as they keep it alive.
    Levi Gold and Roth like this.
  2. Spookerton

    Spookerton Head Administrator Director of Administration Head Administrator Game Administrator IPC Species Maintainer Donator

    Most of these are out of the list because people despise them and I don't think we have any interest in putting them in random pick again. Xeno is completely gone and won't be returning, I suspect, since it would mean writing a new mode from scratch. Meteor is just a horrible time all 'round.

    In general most of these get voted in occasionally, and people are reminded why they didn't want them in secret. That's plenty.
  3. The chance that people vote these in usually is really really slim, and since you can't 'votesway' on Bay, you can't really try to OOCly agree on something. It's honestly a shame, but I hope it can be fixed to be more inclusive and diverse.
  4. tomdroid

    tomdroid Game Radmin Game Administrator

    I'll use this as a soapbox for my deity opinion: It's a perfectly good gamemode if the following prerequisites are fulfilled:
    1. It doesn't break or otherwise just stop working like it does quite frequently.
    2. The deity knows what they're doing, and make it fun for all involved
    3. Every single cultist knows what they're doing, and how to follow along with whatever the deity's doing besides build table don't stop build table
    If #1 doesn't happen., well, you're just shit outta luck. If #2 doesn't happen, then you end up with what is basically extended until the last five minutes, where it is "Try to contain the massive amount of fire/bloody dagger/fireball wielding maniacs". If #3 doesn't happen, you might have a perfectly good deity, but the followers are doing god knows what, completely ignoring any plans the deity had, besides "unga bunga build table be ominous". Deity isn't out of the rotation IIRC, but it should be.
    Roth and listendudeiwannadie like this.
  5. You bring up great points of criticism for the Deity gamemode, and quite honestly, I agree with you other than the fact of removing it. Removing gamemodes in my honest opinion limits gameplay and creative aspects. But there definitely should be improvements as you mentioned.
  6. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    Well if people don't vote these round types, it might be because they don't like them.

    To be honest my dream would be to get rid of all the on-Torch antags to add some more off-Torch stuff to interact with, but that would require a lot of development, and is beyond my skillset.
  7. afterthought

    afterthought Retired Staff

    To clarify misconceptions in the above conversation, I go through every mode our codebase currently supports.
    Here are the modes currently in the secret rotation:
    • cult
    • extended
    • god (i.e. deity)
    • heist
    • crossfire (heist + merc)
    • siege (merc + rev)
    • spyvspy (traitor + renegade)
    • uprising (cult + rev)
    • mercenary
    • traitor
    Here are modes which are not part of the secret rotation, but could be considered without major changes if there's community interest:
    • revolution
    Here are modes which are not part of the secret rotation, and will remain so until at least moderate changes are implemented (with annotations; I have discussed these elsewhere):
    • wizard [Would require at least a reskin and a spell rebalance, and likely a combination with other modes.]
    • ninja [Would require combination with other modes.]
    Here are modes which are not part of the secret rotation, and will remain so until major changes are implemented (with annotations):
    • changeling [A mode which works poorly with our server antag expectations. It has proved extremely difficult for changelings to interact with crew in a meaningful way without either giving themselves up or silently killing their victim. Any rework would have to address the core problems with this mode.]
    • malfunction [A universally hated mode which lacks a viable state of moderate escalation. A complete rework might see this return, but I doubt it.]
    • traitorling [A combined mode which does not, unfortunately, fare better than normal changeling.]
    • meteor [The current version is not tuned to be an engineering challenge but rather a fast-death round. Meteor has balance issues, issues with engaging non-engineering crew, and also performance problems. An alternative passive-event mode for the secret rotation is imaginable, but would be very different from current meteor.]
    Here are modes which will never join the secret rotation:
    • calamity [A mode for admin shenanigans and server stress tests, not for routine use.]
    If a mode was not listed above, it is not a mode which exists within the codebase. I hope I have outlined what would be needed for any given mode to be added to the secret rotation.
    WezYo, CubecsMelody and Roland410 like this.
  8. Roland410

    Roland410 Petty Officer First Class

    I think Afterthought clarified it entirely, even if I din't agree with the wiz/ninja one, other than that it could spawn more than one, so it doesn't get stale as fast and generally solo antag modes don't work too well anyways. Could also combine it with another mode as well to be fair, say idk traitor+ninja and cult/deity+wizard.

    Xenos got fully purged already because the mode was completely broken, kind of the same as changeling and malf will be. Unmaintained, and slowly more and more out of date.
    listendudeiwannadie likes this.
  9. mikomyazaki2

    mikomyazaki2 Petty Officer First Class

    You mentioned some bugs with various modes that I've not encountered before. This is probably because people don't report the bugs.

    And when these mode come up once a week or less, and often the bugs are only really visible to the one person playing the special role... it's kind of hard to fix them.

    I'm interested in fixing bugs with antagonist roles (and have fixed many) -- But people have to make bug reports.


    Also to chime in on the conversation. We need either new antagonist modes OR a focus on non-antagonist events/gameplay to keep rounds interesting. Bay just isn't designed setting or rules-wise for antagonists that are dangerous like ling, wizard, xeno, etc. -- Mercenary doesn't really work either imo.
    listendudeiwannadie likes this.
  10. I 100% agree on wizard, definitely a spell rebalance would work, as well as a combination with other modes. I also agree Ninja would be great combined with other modes. Why not do that as a compromise for Ninja? I think that'd be a great thing to do, because I even said that Ninja alone is kinda boring once he dies, but Ninja is still an amazing gamemode.

    It's a shame that Changeling is considered broken by the server, so I hope someone takes the liberty to fix it. It's personally a favorite of mine next to Ninja. Also, a passive-event type of Meteor would be great imo. As long as there is still some injuries, and not instant death, I think it'd be fun as hell. I also hope ling can be reworked well enough to at least be put back with traitorling. Malfunction I agree, never really liked. Hope thats reworked though.

    The reason I care so much is that we have all these great gamemodes with such potential for roleplay on Bay, and they're kinda just sitting out to waste. I really hope someone takes the liberty to do something about it. Especially Ninja, I hope the admins combine that with another gamemode at the very least, as you said, that's all it really requires. Would be great. Thanks for your amazing post.
  11. You bring up great points. I think Bay could benefit from fresh antagonist gamemodes, while keeping a few old ones, like maybe a reworked ling, or Ninja. I notice a lot of gamemodes that are popular within SS13 just don't really work on Bay, it's usually just so awkward. Also, thank God someone else notices Mercenary (one of my personal fav gamemodes within SS13, not just Bay,) doesn't work here.
  12. Eckles

    Eckles Senior Administrator Game Administrator Skrell Species Maintainer

    On the point of revolution. I'm of the opinion we should rename it to "mutiny" and give the mutineers access to bad guy things of a moderate level so they can successfully topple the command team.

    The mode should also immediately and without input from admins or the command team, provide a reason for the mutiny, so make people have a motivation to be a part of it.

    This would probably fare better than the current state of "make up a reason to rev smash the state etc" that we currently have, and would focus the mode around overthrowing command/taking over the ship.
  13. I agree. Revolution is just ass in it's current state. Mutiny would be a much better name, and giving them the tools to do so would be great.
  14. ZCaliber

    ZCaliber Chef

    A really good ninja round way back in the NT days is the origin to the character I currently play.

    Really, a good re-code of both Wizard and Ninja I could see going as a first contact game-mode. Where Ninja could be re-written as technological, and Wizard as 'esoteric' or not following expected technological paths (I.E. Magic, arcane, tapping into blue-space.)

    What these two game-modes could truly use, I think, is allowing said player to act a bit like a GM in a pen and paper RPG, with some 'meta' control if you would. A few examples would be perhaps creating the look of what they wish to play without limitations (Well, as far as customizing appearance, skills, equipment, etc.) maybe even opening up the option and possibility to have others as part of your 'race'. Sure, people can create an all-powerful 'I win' character with everything, but I would think this would be a bit in the minority. I honestly don't think people play on Baystation to solely murder-hobo.

    Mayhaps, at the heart of why people dislike both Ninja AND Wizard, is the limited scope in regards to how they're presented. Even just adding in the unrestricted visual customization could make for much more varied scenarios?

    As for meteors, I've always been interested in a game mode where the environment is the antagonist. Perhaps it, in the future, it can be refitted as a 'disaster' game mode. Survival, adversity, fear and drama become the main points.
  15. antonkr

    antonkr Sol Gov Pilot

    Honestly revolution should work as a conversion revolution, similar to normal "flash" rev, but with maybe 4 or so head revs spawning and having 2 implants each for a maximum of 12 revs which works well. Have some risk involved, and maybe randomly generate a crew independent reason for the actual rev, ie: research on the ship is being used to manufacture weapons, Torch's sensors were used to locate a hostile ship which goes against peaceful mission, etc. Something that can rile people up without the command staff having to be the baddies, more so the unfortunate souls stuck in a shitty situation.
  16. RuneCap

    RuneCap Chef

    I see that even as I stray further and further from Bay, people pick up the breadcrumbs of that which I've long left into the dust.

    Threads like these are things I believe will only come up again, year after year because the current gamemode selection in Bay is pretty bad. While I don't agree with all the gamemodes suggested to return (namely Meteor because that gamemode is hardly any fun, it's just "lag for 90 minutes and cry" because everyone is usually dead, and Changelings can't even do anything because all they have are useless stings).

    Let me make it easy:
    There are a lot of gamemodes still in Secret Rotation, but the effective gamemodes that are played is nowhere near that amount.

    Traitor is the main one people have one, from that you have Mercenary and Raider- which are both basically the same and sometimes really just seen as Super-Traitors! These are the only three really played.

    You then have Cult, Deity, and Wizard. People usually have cult off so it's immediately an uncommon gamemode. Fuckall people understand how to play Deity and don't have it on- even rarer, and Wizard is out of rotation. In order to get a Wizard round, you need to somehow convince people to vote for it and you can't even say it in OOC because it'd be considered votesway.

    Gamemodes are falling into a trap I said earlier in my "Re-Add Wizard" thread: there's little variety, so people get insanely bored; even if Wizard isn't all that great (though I do believe it is and that old thread explained why)- it adds variety and spice, what's missing with the repetitiveness of these gamemodes. Oh yeah, there's also Revolution which so few people have on that I unironically forget Bay even has it as a gamemode still.
    YodaDoge likes this.
  17. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    That got changed recently, see :

    Adding a rarely (if ever) interesting gamemode to the rotation, that is rarely (if ever) treated in an HRP way isn't, imo, a way to solve that kind of problems, you could either : make new gamemodes out of scrap, or eventually create some new things for people to have fun with (aka new away sites, new ships to interact with, new on-ship preocupation).

    The other thing that I find funny is people complaining about being bored are almost always the ones that stay cluttered in their department (generally alt-tab'ed to some youtube video, or whatever), waiting for something to happen while they could figure out a million of opportunity to RP, or do something, which would improve their mechanics knowledge and getting to create some socialization for their character, which will bring further interactions during later rounds...

    Not to mention all those command rounds where I've had 1/2 complaining (in OOOC) about a drill I forced them to partake, then complaining about being bored because the antags didn't cause enough mayhem : Let- me- laugh-.

    A wizard round is either utterly boring because he doesn't do anything, or utterly annoying because he goes all out, and can wipe sec in 2 minutes, or get wiped in 2 minutes (and you loop back to option 1 : it's boring once security is patched, the walls fixed, and the wizard's body, put in the morgue). I hardly see that round type as diversified at all.
  18. RuneCap

    RuneCap Chef

    The gamemode is rarely interesting because it's so rare now. Tell me that last time you saw Wizard voted, and then the time between that and the time it was voted BEFORE. Pretty dang long time, guessing? Perhaps because anyone playing wizard nowadays is new to the gamemode, that's what leads to bland ideas and executions; they barely know what they're doing and the wiki is unreliable so how can you blame them? If done by a more experienced person, they can utilize all the great fruits the gamemode bears like SP and the amazing Spellbound Servants which, by the way, can literally turn it from one antag to several or even have mini-wizards if they choose some good ones.

    I think people are focusing too much on adding stuff and not enough on polishing. Making an entirely new thing out of scrap is worse to do than just reworking a gamemode- both of which usually never happen anyways, no matter how much people say and pray it will; it's not here yet and it's not a PR so it basically doesn't exist.
  19. Hubblenaut

    Hubblenaut Research Director

    Here are some criteria by which one could rate antagonist types:
    • How much freedom are the antagonists given to play out their role (from both a lore and mechanic perspective)?
    • How do the antagonist's goals line up with the rules (and lore) of the server?
    • How engaging is the antagonist's role for themself?
    • How engaging is the antagonist's role for everyone else?
    I won't be going into detail for every game mode we have, so to keep it short I'll just explain my view on a select few modes with respect to the criteria defined above.

    While arguably being the most simple game mode, I list it here because opposed to a lot of the others, it provides the most freedom to antagonists and allows for a wide range of different gimmicks, particularly when looking at the amount of antag gear traitors are able to access nowadays. With the freedom of storytelling that is given, a player is able to play out this role as they prefer, while also having some control over the pacing of the round by adjusting the severity of their actions.

    Addressing the elefant in the room that is probably clear for everyone: It doesn't fit in the lore in the slightest. While there's players that enjoy these kinds of interactions with what can only be described as blatant magic, I will argue that a fair amount of players that signed up to play Baystation are not here for those. Looking beyond that, the entire round stands and falls with the player that is the wizard. Even if said player has lots of interesting and engaging ideas, the round will default back to Extended once the wizard has died or has been permanently captured.
    There is also usually the point in a round where the crew will feel forced to hunt the wizard down, upon which the round will turn into a yakety sax slap stick joke until the wizard is (commonly) either dead or captured. This part of the mode is usually a lot more fun for the wizard than it is for the ones trying to hunt them. Much less so even for rest, who at this point usually won't be directly engaged with the antagonist at all, anymore.

    By nature of being a very powerful single antagonist, this mode has, albeit somewhat more lore-friendly, a lot of similar problems like the ones that Wizard has.
    However, looking beyond that, by nature of what the role dictates, the ninja is expected to be stealthy, unseen, deadly end efficient. This however is completely at odds with the server rules (and what I would deem interesting), so instead of a ninja we usually either see an invisible man that is pulling pranks on people without much logic or point to it, or we see some sort of mercenary offering his unique services to command. While that may be fun, that's not actually what being a Ninja should be about. Back in the days, for probably this reason, the ninja was a separate entity in the round that could be spawend by admins (or spawn itself by a very rare event), so the burden of the entire round wasn't put on this single antagonist, and he was free to fulfill whatever objective he was given, go through with it and be done with it.

    The nature of the changeling is very restrictive and originally required them to absorb x amount of people and assume their identities in order to evade Security. Since stealthy kills went against the server rules at some point though (or still do, or do once again, I lost track of all the rule changes), and it's understandingly both risky and tiring to roleplay out a murder that essentially has no more reason to it than "I need your genomes", players opted to divert from the killing route and instead started to pull pranks by changing other people's DNA (to the point that this feature had to be removed) and similar, all using their unique abilities.
    Similar to the ninja, changelings rarely appear to do anymore what they were originally intended to. Which is sad, because the way they were played they striked people with fear and paranoia. Im my opinion, they used to be among the most engaging antagonist there was. Simply knowing that there were changeling among the crew made you paranoid of nearly everyone you met. I don't experience this anymore.
    For this mode to return to its original glory, I feel the only solution would be to lesser restrictions on killing people, so that antagonists are more inclined to murder without the fear of being so much as even bwoinked.

    In summary, I can see some of these game modes returning. But preferably not before they were adjusted to properly fit into the setting and before their gamestyles fully align with the rules of this server. In my opinion, the rules have gotten too restrictive for some of these modes to actually be played out properly.
    Roth and flying_loulou like this.
  20. butterrobber202

    butterrobber202 Bartender

    The main draw of secret is not knowing what threat you will be facing right out of the gate and its a soft-protection on being able to meta-prepare for the roundtype. This effect likely causes singular gamemodes to be rarely selected.

    Really I think the easiest solution is to add a second secret gamemode and call it "Chaotic Secret" which has these removed gamemode in the pool, so when the players want a high-intensity round, they can vote for it while still having the RNG Veil of Secret to make it more enjoyable.