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Denied [Complaint] Daaneesh & Apple Master

Discussion in 'Archived Staff Complaints' started by ParadoxSpace, Jun 29, 2017.

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  1. ParadoxSpace

    ParadoxSpace Mr. Roboto

    On recommendation by a moderator.

    Key/username of admin: Apple_Master and Daaneesh
    Your key/username: ParadoxSpace
    Date and Time of Incident(s): 6/29/2017, within the hour of 1 PM MST
    Reason for complaint: I'd like to preface this complaint by stating that Daaneesh is the main source of vile shit in this complaint, but Apple Master also had a hand (despite his apologetic behavior later).
    This complaint sprang from a Discord conversation about Canada, where IDTia posted [​IMG]
    Daaneesh went on to say that this wasn't true, that 'we literally give the ''natives'' more than we giveanyone anything else'
    That [​IMG]

    Later on, my good friend Asillyn00b (a factual Canadian native) came to post that Natives are treated absolutely horrendously, that she's went to 9 funerals in the past 10 years, that 5000 or more children were killed in residential schools. Raped. Beaten. Then the two admins had something very interesting to say.
    [​IMG]

    Invalidating a native's experience.

    [​IMG]

    Devaluing the experiences of natives.

    Then Daaneesh came back.
    [​IMG]

    Then Daaneesh attempted to evacuate.
    [​IMG]

    'Dude- I never once said anything against you. But okay'

    Apple Master came back in an apologetic fashion, apologizing for his 'poor wording.'
    But Daaneesh, curiously, did not do the same.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    That was about the end of the actual conversation, but I am genuinely shocked that Bay staff are openly allowed to hold these kinds of opinions, do this sort of toxic invalidation towards POC experiences, and state them outright for everyone to see.

    Evidence of complaint:

    above

    Other people that can vouch are pretty much everyone that was there, but most of all Asillyn00b.
     
  2. Meyar

    Meyar Retired Worstmin 2015-2017

    Please provide full logs and not just portions via screen shot.
     
  3. Asillyn00b

    Asillyn00b Chef

    I have nothing nice to say about the situation seeing as my first post was deleted, so I will provide the logs
    https://pastebin.com/ffWvAZhH
     
  4. ParadoxSpace

    ParadoxSpace Mr. Roboto

  5. mkalash

    mkalash Donator

    For starters, I am not interested in moderating the opinions of members of the community. I will be focusing only on the behavior of the persons involved in the argument. Any attempt to bring the debate back up here or elsewhere I will not tolerate.

    I was alerted to this argument just after it had ended and I talked to the individuals involved. Since this complaint involves staff members equal or above me, it's up to
    @ThatOneGuy to make a final decision, but I will post my thoughts since I initially responded to the problem.

    For starters, the behavior from neither said was acceptable. While I can understand why each side would be angry, it is not okay to escalate or perpetuate a heated conversation where more and more people are just going to get upset. It is my evaluation than Daaneesh did not mean to undermine persons who have faced racial/ethnic tragedies and that she became understandably frustrated (along with Apple) when she was called a racist/insulted/etc. over a misunderstanding. I also understand that asillynoob was angry and frustrated over what she saw as the undermining of her culture and the tragedies they faced. However, this excuses no one from allowing the argument to get out of hand. The proper action would have been to respectfully end the argument and walk away or call in a community moderator for mediation.

    It is the reality of our positions that staff members are held to a higher standard of behavior by the community. I will not discount that asillynoob's behavior was equally unacceptable to Apple's and Daans, and both sides should certainly have known better, but asillynoob is not a representative of the staff of this community. This is especially disappointing as it comes right after a public apology from the staff for allowing themselves to become too heated and behave disrespectfully towards players. This, coupled with my conversation with the two brings me to this conclusion:

    Asillyn00b has be warned and will be watched for further misbehavior. However, additional punishment should be considered for Apple and Daan.

    ToG and I will be looking through the full logs of the argument to handle the situation thoroughly and with the best judgement. I will also be providing ToG with more logs from my conversations with the two parties.
     
  6. Apple Master

    Apple Master Donator

    I would like to apologise to ASN and all first nation people for the inappropriate comments I made - invalidating their experiences and the difficulties they’ve faced in the past and continue to face.


    As a brit, I was barely taught in school of what happened in the UK itself, let alone North America as a continent. Even as someone who took History to a more advanced level, I only really studied the World Wars and the Irish (which, upon reading, is a slightly similar situation as far as I can tell). I will not claim that ignorance is acceptable or an excuse - but I genuinely wasn’t aware that Canada even had a native population until about 3 months ago. I wasn’t aware of the horrors they were subjected to by the Canadian Government and am shocked by how recently it occurred.


    As I briefly mentioned in the conversation, people can have these moments where based on their experience/knowledge they say things that are objectively awful to say. This is what happened here, and having now spent a few hours reading about what’s happened and what the natives in Canada have had to endure, I am filled with shame and regret with what I said.


    I know now a lot more about Canadian history than I did previously and I hope that you will forgive me for my actions.
     
  7. ThatOneGuy

    ThatOneGuy Retired Staff

    People are able to have different opinions, this is the internet, not everyone agrees.

    Issues come up when people can't be mature, or get heated unnecessarily. This entire thing looks like just one big mess of people being rude, and as Mkalash already noted, could have been easily handled by thinking. I'm not gonna give strikes because they didn't break admin policy. I'm not gonna punish players either just because they got in this silly argument. Just remember that we are all here as part of this community and getting in these silly fights is really pointless when we having everything in place to stop it. Don't be little kids, be adults.

    I'm closing this. Everyone involved in this disappoints me.
     
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