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Proposal Disallow admins from playing Security.

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Feedback' started by samsone700, Apr 7, 2021.

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  1. samsone700

    samsone700 Petty Officer First Class

    It is a well-known fact, that admin get logs on everything that happens in-game, most importantly antag actions. This is even true when admins themselves are playing. Normally, i would't have an issue with this. You can metagame with all roles, but security is especially sensitive due to the PVP aspect of Antags vs Security. I see it as a severe conflict of interest for admin privileged players to be playing roles like Chief of Security, when they know every single thing antags does at the same time. I can't possibly be the only one having an issue with this. I know they are expected to actively not meta, and try to separate the Admin and the Character, but let me explain why that is almost impossible and is not being done.

    Even though they might not consciously metagame, they can always be aware and on guard with all antags. They can conveniently be there, when an antag is trying to do something. Wether it be on the exact convenient camera, or nearby where a crime is taking place, etc.
    Its all very subtle, and therefore impossible to actually prove. Only when you play antag as much as me, and it happens several times, with the same known Sec-admins, you begin to see a pattern and realize what the deal is.

    This is most prominent with Traitor mode. Traitors are already incredibly underpowered compared to sec. The most powerful asset the traitor has, is the element of surprise. So if a traitor is trying to set up an ambush against an Admin-sec, for an example, they will be on guard. They might not even realize this, but they are. A clueless, normal sec player would have no clue they were about to be engaged in PVP. They don't take small precautions by standing further away from you, their reflexes and awareness are not primed, and therefore they are usually lax and taken by surprise, both OOC and IC, just like their character should. This will most likely result in them, being taken down. With Admin-sec, that is rarely the case. They will know, that they are about to be engaged in PVP, weather they consciously wish to meta or not. They will be ready with their, mouse, keyboard and expect what is coming. The element of surprise is ruined, they have knowledge they are not supposed to have in a PVP situation, which helps them immensely and prevents them from making any mistakes.
    I know this, cause I have been in the same shoes. I would have to allow myself to get taken down, or give active leeway during an assault to simulate getting taken by surprise.

    Problem is, admin can do this again and again and its usually impossible to prove that they are metagaming due to these subtle, but very meaningful details. You can't prove if they somehow got knowledge that you don't know about, or if they just had some bullshit IC excuse to not stand near you, or why they conveniently were at the right place, at the right time. Maybe you just had a bad ping at that exact time? You would have to gather subtle proof from several rounds to even have a case that could stick, and nobody wants to do that. It has become so bad, I'm actively avoiding or planning around certain sec members, due to knowing that they OOC follow every move i make.

    I think admin can play any other role, except for security and to a degree, antags. They should not be allowed to play PVP heavy roles like that. Either make admins blind from logs when they play or don't take these roles.
    EDIT: Event characters are an exception.

    I wish to hear your opinion on this, especially those who play antag and security.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  2. Kozak411

    Kozak411 Forbidden Moderator Game Moderator

    Staff have a button that lets us "de-admin" ourselves until reenabled. If any staff don't feel they can play a role without using staff metaknowledge, they're given the choice to disable that metaknowledge.

    With that said, every single player on the server is exposed to a similar problem the moment they interact with any antag in any round, or the moment they play a second job. Players are held to rules preventing them from acting on this knowledge - for example, while Joe Explorer can see an emag and OOCly know what it is, IC it's just an ID with some circuitry.

    When anyone violates the rules, Staff get involved. If you feel staff have been using their powers to get an unfair advantage, ahelp or staff complaint it. Artificially restricting your staff volunteers from playing jobs they like is not a solution to any problem except maybe an overabundance of staff that are enjoying the game.
     
  3. samsone700

    samsone700 Petty Officer First Class

    Why not just make it obligatory that admin get De-admin'd whenever they are actively playing then? As far as I know, they are not allowed to admin their own rounds anyway, so there is no reason for them to have logs while in-round?
     
  4. Boznar

    Boznar baaaaaznar Game Administrator

    ⚹40. Do not use staff powers to give yourself advantages outside events.

    This includes staff metaknowledge. If you believe there's a legitimate complaint for abuse of power then make a staff complaint.

    I cannot even begin to fathom the absurdity of this logic. By your account on this, we shouldn't be allowed to play any role. Because we see everyone get wounded, or see everyone set a bomb get planted and detonated, and every object that gets generated on overmap. The role doesn't matter. The veil is lifted so we can handle issues, not metagame someone buying their third TTV for the round.
     
  5. Spookerton

    Spookerton Public Kōhai №1 Director of Administration Head Administrator Game Administrator IPC Species Maintainer Donator

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