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Mohranda : a non-controversial lore submission.

Discussion in 'Lore Submissions' started by flying_loulou, Mar 6, 2020.

  1. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    Hi, hello.
    As asked by @Eckles , I re-wrote most of the things I've been writting so far to make up a new faction with its system, planets, culture, etc (of course inspired of what I've proposed before)...

    So here it is : https://wiki.baystation12.net/User:Flying.loulou/Lohrene
    EDIT : This link is outdated, please see : https://wiki.baystation12.net/User:Flying.loulou/Mohranda

    I find the wiki to be much easier to read for you, and to format, for me. You'll probably find some typos, grammar horrors, or not-well-turned sentences, I'll be reading it all several times to fix that as much as I can, if you see anything that itches you, well do shout at me.

    I'm, indeed, welcoming opinions, point of views, inputs and whatnot. Keep it constructive and gentle this time, please.

    Ah also, for the records. For when I'm gone (so probably within a year or two) : if you want to touch all that shit because it's outdated, no longer matching the lore/setting, or whatever, it's open source, just jump at it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
    WezYo likes this.
  2. andrewmeythaler

    andrewmeythaler Research Director

    Hello, I'm Hollywoods Space Asshole. You may remember me from such popular antagonist rounds as, 'That space rock gave me super powers, and cancer', and 'That wizard constructed an elaborate labyrinth and then died.' I played the original Colonel in the first round Mirania ever appeared in. The entire faction was made up on the spot by a team of nuke-ops all the way back in 2017 (Jesus Christ) in the span of 15 minutes to come up with a funny reason why we should invade and capture the Exodus. It was then later added to the lore in an official capacity after people decided they liked the gumption of a small band of third worlders claiming the space station of an interstellar super corporation, and getting away with it. Sieg did most of the writing for the official entry, but kept very close to the original vision, thanks to help from others who played that round including myself. If it felt 'memey' it's because most of the motivation to officiate them into lore was so they would be an in game antagonist faction (I was also really into East German history at the time, sorry). They fell out of relevance once the server transitioned to the Torch, and armed insurrectionists defeating the crew became less and less realistic.

    I for one am happy they are being adjusted for the new timeline (as much as I hate the other lore changes) and brought back into relevance. I like almost everything I see (especially the new flag), but if I could change anything it would be the military rankings. I lay awake at night, terrified someone may retcon my Colonel!
     
    Vulcenus likes this.
  3. I don't want to be non-constructive. But, if the title literally has to state "non-controversial", there is a likely chance it's going to be controversial no matter how much duct tape you put around it. Regardless, It does look pretty neat. Can't think of much to change about it.
     
  4. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    I'm affraid, but this isn't an adjustment to Mirania, as it has been decided by the lore team to fully remove it (following the shitshow in my previous thread). Lohrene is an entirely new faction.

    Pretty much intended, I'm not sure if it's because I like self-harming or just because my sense of humour is too stupid. But don't worry, I've got a lot of tape.


    More seriously though, I did a bit of rephrasing, fixed some tenses/grammar/typos issues, I'll give it another read tomorow.
     
  5. Space suits being colour coded for importance is a good way to get senior officers and enlisted wasted by a railgun or something, therefore wrecking the hierarchal command structure.
     
    Vulcenus likes this.
  6. Paradoxon

    Paradoxon Retired Staff

    I don't want to create another shitstorm, but I have to admit I really, really dislike what I'm seeing here. When Eckles said to redo the submission, I had hoped that it would this time be properly separated and different from Mirania, but the truth is, all you did was just change the name, remove Sieg's name, paraphrase things a bit, and call it a day.

    Sure, I don't agree with the way Sieg reacted in the previous thread (even though I really don't think it warranted a perma commban), but the message sent right here to people who might contribute to Bay's lore is "if things go wrong with you, we'll scrub all references of you from stuff, put a new coat of paint on top of it, and then totally pretend it's original content". That's... just plain wrong, and it's really not encouraging for anyone who would like to contribute to Bay, especially when this time it actually goes against the licence used for the lore.

    Last thread was a mess where everyone was at least a bit wrong, let's try to move in the opposite direction for this one, please.
     
    Phosphorus and Blazerules like this.
  7. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    So I have to disagree. The Geography and climate are totally different. The history isn't happening in the same timeline, nor it is the same, the only common point being economical stability being the origin of some coup taking the power away from the people. The political and military structures are the one I proposed in my suggestion thread, before I even know Sieg's planet existed. The relations with foreign powers are indeed nearly identical since I don't imagine a system welcoming with open arms the growth of a militaristic state in its neighborhoud.
    Now the culture : the oath is gone, I introduced the creed which I've been thinking of, again, in my suggestion thread, before I even know Sieg's planet existed. The pride-full trait is also something I initially wanted (again, before I ever got to think of Mirania), even though I don't find it identical to the previously discussed bit of lore, I understand why it may sound comparable. The flag is and its description are entirely new. The state of research is the only thing I might have mainly kept and paraphrased.

    So I have : Used the same template, rewritten most of it, based on my original idea, and not on Mirania. I also have kept the idea of the military government for 2 reasons : 1) being that I ALSO wanted it originally (see again, in the proposal thread I've made for a new faction), and 2) because I'm not entirely sure I can jump from red to green, and replace what used to exist as a very dark nation by some peacefull Republic, or anything equivalent.

    I have not : Copied entirely, simply rephrased (even though some few sections, such as the state of Lohrene's R&D were vastly inspired from Mirania, or the 1st republic's political structure). If you want to do such comparison, please don't compare this with what I previously written, which is my work, but with the original github page which caused all this, and you might see that there, in fact, some similarities, but nothing beyond that.

    That's totaly not my goal, and I, originally, just wanted to contribute the universe. I've never, ever expected such an actual drama for something so minor (and I find it qute pityfull, honestly). So if there are problematic things which might have been too inspired from the original Mirania page, please point them out, but Lohrene is mostly based on what I originally thought of.
     
  8. Paradoxon

    Paradoxon Retired Staff



    I could go on and on and on. If the goal of "all Mirania references now and forever are scrubbed from the codebase" was respected, I'd have no problem with that lore proposal, but the fact is it's obviously built on it. You seem to have ideas, and the motivation, my best advice ? Use those on a lore thing you've built from the ground up. Don't use a to-be-scrubbed thing as a base to build on.
     
    WezYo likes this.
  9. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    Well, the thing is, it's unclear for me if I'm given that sort of leeway. From what I understood I had to still propose "something along the lines".
     
  10. Paradoxon

    Paradoxon Retired Staff

    Don't take that part too literally, I'd say, it's the Lore Submission forum, there isn't a pre-pre-selection process before posting proposals here.

    The issue with the current proposal at hand is that it does the exact opposite of what was (I hope) intended by Eckles: not only does it preserve Mirania as a reference, but it does so in a manner that proves Sieg right by blatantly breaching the terms of CC, which even past the legalese question (which I do find ugly and very unfit for the nature of Bay, so, not really the point of my argument) is just ethically very, very meh, and not something that's going to encourage people to be participants in lore.
     
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  11. Eckles

    Eckles Senior Administrator Game Administrator Skrell Species Maintainer

    I really did mean scrub that stuff away. Rework your submission to be more than just a coat of paint. No relation to Mirania. We shan't be dealing with any hoo-hah from any relation to now un-named colony.
     
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  12. The Great Skeeve

    The Great Skeeve Senior Enlisted Advisor

    I am actually partially responsible for this legal mess up and forgot to do it when I ported all the old lore wiki over; if you wish to fix this licensing error, just add a previous contributions page to the special pages and attribute the original authors with a link to the old lore github, from there, we will not be in violation of any licenses and are free to remix, adapt and change anything they made (regardless of how much they may hate the changes.) This actually probably has to be done as we are in violation of pretty much the entire lore wiki's license except media, which we are actually properly licensing. Whoops.
    Just a reminder that the sharealike license lets us do what we want as long as we attribute the original author.

    Going through the rest of it (without the ridiculous legal mumbo jumbo they were spitting)
    • Did we attribute it? No. We didn't. Technically. This is easily fixed (and should have been done by me!!) Any legal threats are nil, as the damage has already been done (good luck enforcing any of that 30 day notice thing lol) - as soon as you attribute them we are free to use it again! Still though, try not to be jerks.
    • Did we distribute under the same license? We did. (The page is... somewhere.)
    • Did we indicate the changes that were made? We did, within the edit history (I made sure to copy word-for-word so that all modifications would be reflected, except for some which were not ported at all - this is why you should move pages on top of old ones, not delete old ones then replace.) If somebody moves the work onto a sandbox page and modifies it it still counts as the edit history is still completed.
    And finally, and most importantly for our ability to share and adapt it: The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.
    An exception to this is the media, which is under a different license. You can see more details of that when you try to upload an image on the Bay 12 wiki. In either case, you guys should probably fix the attribution problem, as it was an oversight by me. This is merely a suggestion, and definitely not legal advice. Administration will make the best choice here.

    As for respecting their wishes to remove it, that's a moral issue you guys gotta deal with!
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2020
  13. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    Okay so, I'm free of my moves in regard to this faction it seems.

    So no worries, I'll take more time to write actual stuff based on my very first proposal. I'm also considering making it a new specie instead of simply a new faction, in order to get rid of some bounds caused by hoomans. This would also offer the possibility to avoid retcon, as they could simply introduce themselves once we're done writting it (which could also lead to a few neat events).
     
  14. Phosphorus

    Phosphorus GameAwoomin Game Administrator

    As a note, creating a new species is significantly harder than creating a new faction; you're going to have to be willing to put in a lot of spritework + take a lot of feedback to make it work on the Torch.
     
  15. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    I intend to give it like, 4 to 5 slots on a separated ship, not implent it on the Torch. At least that sounded reasonable for me. As for the sprites and code, a few peoples accepted to help me.
     
  16. SilverSZ

    SilverSZ Chef

    Personally, I don't like this idea particularly, especially for a new species. The problem with this is that firstly, we do not and never will have very many alien players compared to Human players, it's just how bay is because of the nature of whitelisting alien species, most people won't go out and get a whitelist and regularly play an alien race. However this problem becomes worse when they have a separated ship or area, because this small slither of players now can't be part of the greater Torch playerbase for rp but have to rely on other people of their race being around in order to get solid regular roleplay which is probably the reason they are playing in the first place.

    As someone who has a whitelist for all 3 off-map species specific vessels, Skrell, Vox and Gyne. I have rarely actually had fun or been able to enjoy the off-map parts of these races because of the lack of people around to just, play with, especially since I usually can't play at peak pop hours, I wouldn't want to see another race which I would certainly want to play if they stick to this skeleton of lore end up in the same position, so I'd rather see the effort put in to make them work on the Torch, which I know is a big ask for a race, but I think for both the players of that species and the community as a whole It'll make them more fun and lead to more interaction with the new lore, which was kind of a problem for ascent after they ended up being slapped for doing too many bad thing and after that I rarely ever saw them, or when I did playing exploration we just had to leave out of fear of being killed and the round being over for us.
     
  17. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    That's some very interesting input, thanks very much.
     
  18. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    Ok boys, here we go again.

    Here is a draft of what I've been working on, completely different from what's been presented until now (indeed, I kept a few things and ideas) :
    https://wiki.baystation12.net/User:Flying.loulou/Mohranda

    Following discussions I've made it a (generally) human faction, and not a brand new specie.

    Indeed, looking for opinions, feedbacks, thoughts, et caetera...
     
    SilverSZ likes this.
  19. SilverSZ

    SilverSZ Chef

    You mention the economy is based around mining and recycling, do they trade these resources with the ICCG and SCG, and in general how deep do those relationships go? Is it easy or hard for someone from Mohranda to work in SCG space without forfeiting their citizenship and becoming a solar citizen by virtue of being human?

    Additionally you mentioned that 5% of apprentices either die or drop out in the 5 year period, what happens to those who drop out?
     
    flying_loulou likes this.
  20. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    Well most of these products are used to feed the factories within the Luggust system, but I imagine that such a faction can't produce everything on its own, so they would of course trade with the neighbour powers.

    Well nothing prevents them from doing so, and it isn't seen as bad or good by the Mohrandade Empire, or their people. So I think they can be seen through the entire human space, but not nearly as often as someone from a more coreward world.

    They may either remain within the Empire of Mohranda to perform some jobs seen as thankless by most, or flee to another place to find a more acceptable job. I imagine that those failing their training would likely to be despised and eventually bullied by the others, and would be kind of rejected by the mohrandade society.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020