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Accepted Player complaint - Caede Valquirelle

Discussion in 'Archived Player Complaints' started by Kozak411, Sep 12, 2020.

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  1. Kozak411

    Kozak411 Chef

    Their BYOND username:Cupax3
    Their character name: Caede Valquirelle
    Your BYOND username: Kozak411
    Your character name: Kaitlyn Whirlow
    Date, time, and game ID of incident:
    Client Version: 513
    Server Revision: aee06e8455b4c5f81c521a122f3ae5ed03a9914f - 1c521a122f3ae5ed03a9914f - 2020-09-11
    Game ID: b86-dvx7
    Current map: SEV Torch
    Who else can vouch for the situation: Ozwell (IQ-Audrey), FreshPrinceofScranHouse (Geert van Schlanger), Hubblenaut (Lilly Whiteplume)
    What happened: The round was a mercenary round that, for reasons I'm not going to focus on, turned rather sour. The main focus of this complaint is what I believe to be metagaming on the behalf of the XO and poor communication on their part as well.

    When the round began to escalate with the first sighting of the Desperado, they weren't doing anything especially threatening; just flying in the same general direction as us. However, the XO ordered me, the Chief Engineer, to spool shields for ship-based weaponry and eventually humans as well, because "We're going to be boarded". Not once was this elaborated on; if a good reason to believe this was had, it didn't reach me or any others I know of. Then, once the mercs boarded us, I only learned of it through snippets of conversation on comms that security had engaged the mercenaries; there was no update on command comms, no status. Just silence. And to my understanding, Ozwell had an equally frustrating lack of communications with the XO, only knowing there was even a situation when she said 'Prepare to be boarded'.

    All in all, I feel the XO not only reacted overly aggressive to the desperado being nearby, but failed to act in a reasonable manner *as* the Commanding Officer of the ship, in all regards.

    Evidence from my logs is mainly focused around the shielding part, as it's rather difficult to capture the absence of speech. If required I can attach my log file as well.

    Evidence that shows the incident fully (logs, screenshots, recordings, etc.)[/b]:
    shields_1.PNG shields_2.PNG shields_3.PNG shields_4.PNG Shields_5.PNG shields_6.PNG
  2. Kozak411

    Kozak411 Chef

    Posted slightly early. Meant to click save draft, had a brain fart.
  3. Cupa

    Cupa Assistant

    Hey Kozak, thank you for your complaint. I am still rather new to Baystation and made a series of mistakes. I'll take this as an opportunity to improve and work on my play. I accept the issues you outlined, would however like to give my take on them.

    One - The early shields
    I admit here and now that I acted with OOC knowledge to a degree here. The shields and preparations were ordered by myself to be raised after I was briefed due to being afk for about 10 minutes. Unfortunately my logs do not reach far enough back to show this point. If anybody could provide either confirmation or denial of my claims, I'd appreciate that. I also have to say that, with the nature of the round, the start of the escapade has been pushed to be back a bit in my memory.
    However, as the ship was following on an interception course back then and was, as reported by the bridge officer in charge of the sensors, a gunship, as a seasoned navy fleet officer I see no issue with being careful with a gunship following us. I cannot reliably state that I was hearing a report of an attack by the gunship at that time - it could have been meteors or similar damage though that happened later if memory serves in the chase sequence.
    Of note is, also, that I happened to remember an early call by you yourself for the shields to be up early since you "dislike excess power". I saw it fit to make use of that preparation to protect the Torch from potential enemies.
    Note that the possibility of human-adjusted shields were given to me, which I declined in favour of anti-munitions-shields. This decision was also made by the fact that I asked openly in command for the opinion of senior officers which weaponry a gunship would possess. Believe it or not, but at that point in time I was not aware what weaponry the desperado possessed. I made a 50/50 choice and happened to guess correctly. If this were a real military, for that call I might've been commended.
    I noticed your provided logs do show the moment I was referring to - your second screenshot. They moved to intercept, which I announced, and we were hit by something (or rather, that was what I interpreted from the Common) as an enemy attack. Their hostility was affirmed as well as them following us. Only after that was out of doubt, I called for the preparations.

    Two - The boarding
    Again, I was influenced by the OOC knowledge. The orders, however, are, in my mind, still sound to a military officer. My character is not excorp. I have a different one for that. In fact, Caeda Valquirelle is canonically from the Second Fleet and has combat experience by the time they're an XO aboard. I see zero reason why an officer couldn't make the call for security to prepare. My call was different, I am well aware, but in essence it was an order for security to prepare for conflict, which at this point, anybody could've guessed. In my first encounter with the Desperado I was playing as a bridge officer on sensors and immediately went into combat mode the moment I saw the vessel approaching. Granted, back then I was more asking "What? Why? Where? Who?", yet I see no reason to substitute my real reaction seeing it the first time with a fake show of "Oh golly I've never seen this before, how could any armed vessel be in unknown, uncharted terrain? A modified gunship with no friend-or-foe-id or simple ID on a scan by a cruiser? Why, they're here to drink tea. They don't respond? Just shy! What? They adjusted course to follow us? How peculiar, they must really like us!".

    Three - The general situation
    Thank you for including the screenshot where it shows me mentioning the SOS. At that point in time I had been informed of a distress signal we received and was under the impression we were still moving towards - until the power went out. It was at the latest at this point that my character was fully aware we were getting boarded. Boarded, in this case, meaning either armed or unarmed guests. I decided to prepare for the former, for reasons I will outline below to keep this cleaner. Since we would have to have moved into a stationary position to let the S&R properly proceed, I was fully under the impression that if the vessel reached us, it would board us.

    Four - A military officer & meta-knowledge
    I will be drawing from knowledge here that I have gathered from other MilRP games, some a lot more elaborate than Bay. It is evident that any seasoned military officer has experience. This experience being combat. In a time of piece, that combat will be exactly what the Desperado is: Mercenary pirates with stolen equipment and a retro-fitted hull. No neutral vessel would have a gunship. No friendly vessel wouldn't return hails unless something was wrong. In case there was something wrong, ID would show. In case there is no ID, there would have been a docking, where unarmed personnel from the unidentified vessel would come out and explain themselves. Under armed supervision. That is normal safety protocol. Do you really believe any military officer would react to the Desperado with cheers?

    Five - The communication
    This point's completely correct. Nothing I could say could disprove it, since it's true. Something about the shift left a bad taste in my mouth from the start and I got increasingly disgruntled. I shouldn't have continued in the state of mind, yet I would also say it was better to have someone rather than no-one.
    Another point I want to touch on is that I was not aware of any calls for information, since most of the current information was made available on Common by personnel as well. If you read this and scour the logs, please keep in mind that the whole situation was under stress and mental performance was affected as a result. (Think of you watching a gameplay video; You can focus on anything and even pause to go back. The player is in the heat of the moment, controls the game and processes all the information.)
    If a serious lack of information was present, I would indeed have imagined a call for my attention (or two, three if needed) and a question would've been enough to solve it.

    Six - Conclusion/Personal opinion (Subjective)
    Mistakes were made. If this goes through, I'll have learned a lesson in regards to how a character should be played. Even if I will disagree with points, I will try to follow them to the best of my ability. I see myself at fault for slight use of OOC knowledge to take decisive actions after an emergency had arisen requiring my absence for the few minutes key information like the SOS & the Desperado approaching were gathered, yet I see it also as an acceptable use-case to play a believable executive officer. I see no tangible offence in the actions I took as a response to the knowledge that would be available to my character, although the wording was poor as covered in section five. The real issue in my opinion was my improper communication of the situation to the senior officers and the crew at large, although certain informational restrictions should be kept in mind here as to prevent a panic - a very real concern in any scenario with civilians. This issue plagues nearly all people I've played with in any league of skill and, even though I identified it for me, did not act on that as the situation was evolving fast and it was my impression to make do with myself rather than leaving a decision-vacuum behind for potentially heading to cryo - especially the implication that I'm fleeing from a situation I openly in LOOC admitted to being not fond of.

    Thank you for reading.
    I hope I conveyed my perspective properly. If required, I can try to go through my logs and salvage what I find, though they are not nearly long enough to reach the main problematic areas. These are, however, covered to a degree by the screenshots Kozak took in the moment.


    EDIT: Clarification what I mean by APPENDED LATE(R)
  4. Kozak411

    Kozak411 Chef

    The damage that you assumed was an attack was actually a welding tank exploding, by the way. You had no way of knowing this, of course, I'm just hoping to shed some light on the explosion behind medbay.
  5. Deadmon_Wonderland

    Deadmon_Wonderland Game Administrator Unathi Species Maintainer Laser Tag 2019 Participant

    Alright. I'm the one handling this. I don't think I'll need anymore information. If I do I will either contact you here via the forums or ingame. It's 1AM right now so I'll be looking over logs and posting a response sometime later today hopefully.
  6. Deadmon_Wonderland

    Deadmon_Wonderland Game Administrator Unathi Species Maintainer Laser Tag 2019 Participant

    Alright, so after going over logs one of the major things I noticed was a lack of general communication. I outlined in a previous player complaint the importance of communication and delegation when it comes to playing CO and XO respectively. Engineering, Medical, and even Security I saw very little actual communication in regards to what was going on besides maybe three lines that amounted to that they were being boarded.

    The reason communication is important is that it falls to the heads of staff to maintain the ship's various departments. In the case of a boarding especially, Medical and Engineering being left in the dark is going to end up with them unprepared for what is going to happen. Regardless of if the situation directly involves engineering or medical, they're both integral departments to the running of the ship and work best when they can prepare for a issue. Whether that would mean they are informed to prepare for possible boarders or even told the location of fighting, without them being in the know, the ship is impacted, sometimes severely. An XO, especially a fleet officer, should know the importance of communication and delegation, and I think that this should be worked on in the future.

    Now, in regards to metagaming. I will admit that it's hard to consider it metagaming when the Torch is in unknown space and a ship identifying itself as a modified gunship appears on sensors. Considering the nature of the Torch I would consider this something to be worthy of preparation. However, I will say that the assumption of being boarded is leaning towards the side of metagaming. The issue here is the assumption of being boarded while only having red flags. It would be a tense situation, there would be a reason to prepare. However, I believe the shields were not something that should have come up at all. I'd also argue that the idea of all gunships being hostile vessels is not a valid argument. Going off that logic, any military vessel not belonging to sol

    In addition, a cursory glance at how shields work and the XO would understand that they are not designed for combat. They take a long time to charge, go through that charge quickly, and impacts on the shield would make it go down quicker. I think that a XO of fleet would understand that the efforts of engineering would be better used to go somewhere else. I believe that there should be preperation, but I think this was too much.

    In a short summary, the XO should have communicated more, and in not doing so impacted the round for other characters. Their call for shields and the assumption that they were going to be boarded I believe was too much, and is opposite to what we should be promoting. Part of being XO and CO isn't just being in command but also understanding roleplay and how your actions will affect other players. In this situation, the XO was not acting as a seasoned commanding officer should have, especially in regards to the lack of communication.

    I'm going to mark this as valid, but with a added bit that I think that this should be seen as a learning experience rather than a punitive one.
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