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[Policy] Rule Re-write

Discussion in 'Policy Discussion' started by ZeroBits, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. ZeroBits

    ZeroBits Deputy Vox Maintainer

    I think we can all agree that our current rules are a bit of a pain to read, and are a lot more complex than they need to be, which is why I decided to fix that with my rule re-write; https://wiki.baystation12.net/Talk:Rules

    To sum up what I did, I reformatted them to look nice, and re-wrote all of them to be more clear, and to fit with, what I believe, is the spirit of the rules. I also split them into nice sections, split some really complex rules into multiple rules, squashed some similar rules, and generally just made the rules more simple, and more solid. In addition, I've re-written the core staff rules and put those there too. Not only so players can see them, but so staff don't have to look through the forums for them.
    This paper has been stamped with the TOG rubber stamp of approval
     
    LorenLuke and Memescope McGee like this.
  2. F-Tang Steve

    F-Tang Steve Game Administrator Developer Serpentid Species Maintainer Deputy IPC Maintainer Deputy Diona Maintainer Wiki Maintainer

    I like it a lot. It's simpler and easier to follow.
     
  3. Chinsky

    Chinsky Indentured Coder Developer

    >10. Don't vote-sway
    Votesway is a dumb rule. If they're annoying about it, smack them under general spammy rules, otherwise what's the terrible issue I am failing to see? IMO it's just too petty to be a separate whole rule of its own.
    >4. Antagonists' actions are not canon
    Please don't even mention this. It creates precendent that something is indeed canon, under admin enforcement. This filth doesn't belongs in the rules list.

    Aside from looks gud
     
    Mark9013100 likes this.
  4. ZeroBits

    ZeroBits Deputy Vox Maintainer

    It really is, but until policy is created to keep admins from enforcing it like a rule, I feel like it's something players should know about. So I wrote it down despite my personal views.

    There are, indeed, canon events. That said, the rule is mainly there so people know not to go around talking about that last merc round IC, and how the Torch was nuked.

    Regardless, I'll be leaving the actual decision on those rules to the head honcho, because I'm not even staff anymore.
     
  5. Chinsky

    Chinsky Indentured Coder Developer

    Well, you see, those 'canon events' are specifically mentioned so before rounds and such.
    By mentioning it other way around 'antag actiosn are not canon', you're normalizing 'canon' in general.
    Think whitelist vs blacklist. Please don't create the entity for player-perpetuated 'canon' by this rule. Just don't acknowledge it existing, 'lore canon events' get enough warning regarding their nature.
     
    Earthcrusher likes this.
  6. ZeroBits

    ZeroBits Deputy Vox Maintainer

    I understand your point, but the issue here is that we /want/ the players to know that antag events specifically shouldn't carry over, and that's something that has been enforced. I feel like a rule is the best way to do that. If you have a suggestion other than ignoring it, I'd like to hear it though.
     
  7. Chinsky

    Chinsky Indentured Coder Developer

    Not 'canonizing' the 'canon' by explicitly mentioning it in rules as a thing that exists is my suggestion, so I guess no, I only got 'ignoring'.
     
  8. ZeroBits

    ZeroBits Deputy Vox Maintainer

    Alright, I do appreciate your feedback, and I do agree that it does have that unintended side-effect. I just feel that it's important that any "unwritten rules" be written down, this being among them. But, regardless, I'm in no position to argue should TOG or the other staff disagree with me, and I'd be fine with them being removed from the rules if they're no longer enforced as rules.
     
  9. Chinsky

    Chinsky Indentured Coder Developer

    Alright, alright, no need to bounce me to TOG in every other post, just pretend I'm ranting here.
    Has there been issue with people using the past round experience with antags to justify things? Would it not be covered by metagaming/powergaming rules? Because while I hadn't touched adminning with a ten feet pole in a while, I believe that's what it fell under.
     
  10. ZeroBits

    ZeroBits Deputy Vox Maintainer

    I was pushed into a disposal once because some guy 'remembered' me murdering him as a traitor in the previous round. It was honestly hilarious. That said, it could technically be covered under those rules, but I just feel like it warrants its own rule, both because I don't want to add too many clauses to a single rule, and because I want people to know about this "rule" in specific, as people either ask about what is and isn't canon, or talk about previous antag rounds IC quite often.

    That said, do you think it would be more appropriate if there were a rule defining more clearly all of what can and can't carry over between rounds? Because I don't really see another solution that still lets players know about this without having an admin tell them.
     
  11. Chinsky

    Chinsky Indentured Coder Developer

    In a perfect world I'd have it all burning in a toxic waste pit, but her we are.
    I'd rather it be a part of A Crash Course In Roleplaying page, since that's where metagaming etc is explained also, maybe with powergaming/metagaming rules linking there.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  12. F-Tang Steve

    F-Tang Steve Game Administrator Developer Serpentid Species Maintainer Deputy IPC Maintainer Deputy Diona Maintainer Wiki Maintainer

    Why not a "There is no canon, and especially not antag actions."
     
  13. Meyar

    Meyar Retired Worstmin 2015-2017

    Canon has always been a fluid thing here, excepting antag actions. It's kind of an assumed-consent system these days.
     
    Virgil and Memescope McGee like this.
  14. Earthcrusher

    Earthcrusher SMASHER/DEVOURER Game Administrator

    I'm all for keeping it, if only because I see people "remembering" antag events all the time.
     
  15. Meyar

    Meyar Retired Worstmin 2015-2017

    "I've seen this before. Syndicate. You can tell by this crudely drawn picture of a red suited man holding a fukken disk."
     
    LorenLuke likes this.
  16. BSKThemes

    BSKThemes Sol Gov Pilot

    I had a dude remembering that I killed his brother for a good few days. Was a riot.
     
    ZeroBits likes this.
  17. TheGreyWolf

    TheGreyWolf Senior Enlisted Advisor

    We had situations before where people remembered and kept among other things, first a wizard round canon resulting in a merc round being kept canon resulting... Hell, to say it mildly, created some serious conflict. And this was over the course of roughly one or two weeks I believe. I support it as being written down finally.
     
  18. ТhatOneGuy

    ТhatOneGuy Unathi Species Maintainer

    Maybe "antag actions do not carry over into other rounds unless for specifically mentioned Canon Events, which you will know about before the round begins"
     
  19. StrategicImportance

    StrategicImportance Senior Enlisted Advisor

    If the wording is confusing, you can always add examples!

    Also, silicon rules?
     
  20. Kelenius

    Kelenius Executive Officer

    Change
    to
    Not everyone knows what ERP is.
     
    ТhatOneGuy and ZeroBits like this.