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[Policy unexpected condition] Staff "player" complaints

Discussion in 'Policy Discussion' started by Meyar, Nov 24, 2017.

  1. Meyar

    Meyar Retired Worstmin 2015-2017

    Hi, as the author/instigator of the following policy, https://baystation12.net/forums/threads/proposal-player-complaints.4575/ there is currently an unintended behavior in the system right now. Staff complaints are supposed to be public. And, "proper" staff complaints are. At some point it was said that staff not abusing powers but simply being a bell end should be filed as player complaints. As an unintended consequence of the two separate policies, if a staff member is accused of violating rule 1, the complaint would be shuffled under 'player' complaint instead of 'staff' complaint, and as such be invisible to players. That's unacceptable for reasons I imagine don't need elaborating.

    This is a really simple fix here, make it so that staff violating rules of community behavior and such are public, staff complaints, not just abuses of power, which tends to be the system in place now.

    Gameplay complaints can probably be left as 'player complaints' but I'm less worried about those in general.

    In case this needs stating, staff complaints made under 'don't be a dick' and the community guidelines should retroactively be pushed into their relevant staff complaint section (valid/invalid), because this was never the intended function of the system.

    In short, pls fix.

    Thanks. -Guy what authored the complaint privacy policy.
     
  2. The Great Skeeve

    The Great Skeeve Sol Gov Pilot

    Can't agree enough.
     
  3. Lonefly

    Lonefly Donator

    I'd still rather us just make player complaints public, because that would solve this and a whole nest of other issues.
     
    ivygofly, N8-Toe, Crushtoe and 7 others like this.
  4. ZeroBits

    ZeroBits Deputy Vox Maintainer

    Yes, but this would work until that happens.
     
  5. LorenLuke

    LorenLuke Commanding Officer

    As tangential relation to player complaints aspect of this, can someone unlock the 'unlock player complaints' thread, rather than just a post of 'don't necro' and insta-locking it, whence stale for not even a full 30 days, as we've allowed multiple other instances thereof.
     
  6. Earthcrusher

    Earthcrusher SMASHER/DEVOURER Game Administrator

    Better idea: remove complaint privacy entirely.
     
  7. Meyar

    Meyar Retired Worstmin 2015-2017

    I'll leave that up to current staff. I just want the unintended interaction of two separate policies to die as a baseline.
     
  8. Atlantis

    Atlantis Retired Staff

    I also support removing private complaints altogether, it would fix this problem, and from what i see seems to be quite supported solution to the problem.
     
  9. Banditoz

    Banditoz Sol Gov Pilot

    Despite the overwhelming negative support in the last thread, and this thread, I doubt anything is going to change.

    Even though it should.
     
  10. mkalash

    mkalash Donator

    You gain literally no benefit from reading complaint threads.
     
  11. Meyar

    Meyar Retired Worstmin 2015-2017

    Can we maybe focus on fixing the unintended interaction of 2 policies here before derailing into if all complaint threads should be public please? If need be please make a separate thread for it.
     
  12. Banditoz

    Banditoz Sol Gov Pilot

    We also gain no benefit from playing Space Station 13, but here we are.
     
  13. mkalash

    mkalash Donator

    Player complaints are private, which is a choice I don't regret. Staff are players and complaints not relevant to their staff duties are players complaints. It makes sense. This isn't some wacky coincidence, this is how the policy works. Getting your little joy out of the petty drama that comes out of a player complaint does nothing but detract from the purpose of the system.
     
  14. Meyar

    Meyar Retired Worstmin 2015-2017

    Second verse, same as the first: Can we focus on the staff portion, please.

    As staff are expected to follow the rules they enforce and do the whole 'act professionally thing,' community rule violation complaints against staff should be classified as staff complaints and be visible. If a staff member is being a dick, in violation of rule 1, it relates to their duties. Random gameplay complaints that happen to involve staff don't count for the purposes of this thread.
     
  15. mkalash

    mkalash Donator

    Please reread what I said, because I talked about nothing other than staff getting player complaints.
     
  16. Meyar

    Meyar Retired Worstmin 2015-2017

    I assumed you were talking to someone else because it seemed to have nothing to do with the OP.

    My statement stands. As the person who authored/instigated the policy, it is not working as intended. Staff violating behavioral and community rules were not meant to be hidden away, and I've vehemently said from the beginning that staff complaints should not be hidden.
     
  17. mkalash

    mkalash Donator

    You proposed the policy, and I can't argue that it isn't not working how you want it to work. But it is going how it should. You say "hide away" like it means any different who knows about complaints and if they're not public we won't treat them fairly. You know we'll treat them just the same, either way. Even rereading through now, I see you state no benefit to publicizing staff who have player complaints. Only that they shouldn't be hidden, as if it's obviously and inherently bad.
     
  18. Meyar

    Meyar Retired Worstmin 2015-2017

    Staff have a history of not handling staff members for violating rule 1. Keeping staff complaints public keeps them accountable. Following rule 1 is very much a part of staff duties, and should be classed as a staff complaint. Simple as.
     
  19. mkalash

    mkalash Donator

    This is not true.
    Public or private, staff complaints are not handled differently.
    Not according to our perfectly working definition of staff complaints.
     
  20. Meyar

    Meyar Retired Worstmin 2015-2017

    You're free to your own opinion, not your own reality. I was an admin for 2 years and a player for about 5. Do not lecture me like I don't know what I'm talking about. I've seen both sides of the veil. I'm not some know nothing little shit who doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.

    They absolutely are. Complaints made against staff in private tend to get nothing done. See above.

    Aint working. See above. And as the author of the private complaint policy, these were never intended to be hidden from players.