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Proposal Re-add Stasis Bags

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Feedback' started by Ozwell, May 13, 2019.

  1. Ozwell

    Ozwell Retired Staff

    Let's talk about stasis bags for a second.

    The goal of stasis bag removal: To make "medical harder", or at least to make it harder to save people. Basically, to make it harder for medical to be able to fix everything, because I believe the general consensus at the time was that medical is too capable of solving everything.

    The result of stasis bag removal: Medical actually got substantially easier. Stress levels for medical players dropped to an all-time low, and we haven't seen a critical case in months. Why, you might ask? Because every person dies on the field.

    Since the removal of stasis bags, every future-patient has died either before or as the Corpsman is placing the patient on the operating table. Critical cases are getting to be a rarity, because all of them die. Sure, everyone dies, everything is a delay, I understand that. However, this new trend (over a period of months) has negatively impacted my experience as a medical player. I'm not enjoying the medical department as much as I used to, because I quite enjoyed the experience of a high-stress position as that. I miss having to spend an hour unwinding after a stressful medbay round. I miss having to juggle a million things at once. I MISS THE STRESS.

    So, what can we do about this? Can we bring stasis bags back? If we do, should they be in a finite quantity (one per corpsman locker, when they're done, you can't get anymore)? How can we implement the re-adding of stasis bags and please all concerns?

    Discuss!
     
  2. Lonefly

    Lonefly Donator

    Just add them back in like they used to be. No need for artificial limitations, yo. They were a fine element of the game and it seems silly that they were removed.
     
    Ozwell likes this.
  3. Eckles

    Eckles Cake Seller Senior Administrator Game Administrator Skrell Species Maintainer

    I'd argue most of those deaths are a result of EMT's not doing the new expected shit (Nanoblood hooked up on a stretcher + auto comp + bandaging all bleeding + admnistering relevant goodies).

    Because if you do that you can pretty much maintain someone at 30% brain act for ages unless they're really far gone. Frankly I think the skill ceiling just went up.
     
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  4. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Sol Gov Pilot

    Honestly spoken with the carryable nanoblood, autocompressor and so on, I feel like we were given the tools to compensate the loss of the stasis bags. I don't feel we loose that many more people than we used tp (in fact i feel like some cases like arterial bleeding have more chance of survival now, hence, perhaps, why physicians get less critical cases), and on the other hand the EMT job is much more enjoyable.

    So if the deathrate on the server is a problem i'd rather slowdown the braindeath rate, rather than re-add the stasis bags.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  5. Chinsky

    Chinsky Indentured Coder Developer

    Because you brainlets don't even bandage them apparently.

    This
     
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  6. Za_Redman

    Za_Redman Donator

    Exactly this. I'll gladly say that my activity for the past few weeks has taken a distinct nosedive, but at least before then I didn't notice any unreasonable or concerning spike in the number of fatalities per round. If anything, there's been a dip in training with the influx of new players into Medical - And that's to be expected every time we have a rush of new medical players.

    Also, if people haven't realized, sleepers actually do 10x stasis now. That bug was fixed.
     
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  7. Ozwell

    Ozwell Retired Staff

    Highlighted by @flying_loulou, I think the problem here is more the braindeath rate than stasis bags, because both target the issue of braindeath here. My goal from this is to actually get critical cases in the ETC again, and systematic things (like getting better at training new medical player influxes) just don't really seem like it could happen in a reasonable length of time that would improve experiences.

    If this is the case, should we go about decreasing the braindeath rate? Would everyone be okay with that?
     
  8. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Sol Gov Pilot

    I'd be fine with this as long as people it doesn't completely kill the challenge, EMT-wise, and as long as it's measured (let's not allow people to remain treatement-less for 20 minutes it wouldn't be fun for anyone, and the wounded dude would ghost anyway). But honestly it's quite ballanced as-is, or at least that's what I feel (long as his heart and lungs aren't necrotic/severly damaged when the MT arrives, he's got good chances of survival).
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
    Ozwell likes this.
  9. Spookerton

    Spookerton Public Kohai № 1 Staff Manager Manager Senior Administrator Community Moderator IPC Species Maintainer Donator

    @Ozwell The vast majority of deaths "in the field" occur because unless your med tech has a recognizable name, they're probably going to pull you, let you bleed all the way to the ETC, stick you with an inaprovaline autoinjector and think they've finished, or all three. It's a knowledge problem and, as was put well by someone else, occurs mostly because on other servers, the equivalent role is more of a taxi to the cloner than someone who actually has to keep you alive. Brain death also takes quite a long time at the moment, and there are a large number of action and chemical options available to make it less likely. Again, a knowledge problem.

    I've had a number of situations where I've been keeping someone alive with CPR and basics or sleeper meds, then had a med tech arrive and effectively murder the guy by ignoring what they're told about their condition, trying to drag them away without doing any prep, and then just dropping them and walking off after they die of the mishandling. It sucks! It's just not because the tools are inadequate.
     
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  10. BurritoJustice

    BurritoJustice Bartender

    Basically my thoughts. It relies on the knowledge of the corpsman. If you don't have someone who has any desire at all to learn Bay's brainmed, you won't be getting many patients outside of stubbed toes and DOAs. Sucks, but that's how it be. I don't mean to point fingers or necessarily try to shame a set of players, but if time isn't taken to teach newer MTs tips and tricks to save time and optimize their treatments (not saying there's one specific way to do something and if you don't do it then you're the worst person ever), and/or they aren't making much of an effort to learn, then physicians aren't going to have a lot of work to do.
     
    Ozwell likes this.
  11. Ozwell

    Ozwell Retired Staff

    I completely agree about the whole 'knowledge on the corpsman' part, and that is definitely a variable here. What I am saying is, nobody knows everything, and bad corpsmen will continue to be a plague for the rest of time. However, we can make this problem *better* by implementing something similar to what we had before, from my perspective.
     
  12. Somenerd

    Somenerd Petty Officer First Class

    Another option is making stasis bags have *lower* levels of stasis, so they're not as strong as getting someone to a cryotube.
    That way, you do your treatment and stick em in a 2x slowdown bag or something.
     
  13. Eckles

    Eckles Cake Seller Senior Administrator Game Administrator Skrell Species Maintainer

    That's basically pointless.

    You are, quite literally, better off with a rollerbed pumping them full of drugs and nanoblood at that point.
     
  14. ALonelyStranger

    ALonelyStranger Research Director

    This but louder and in my own words.

    But I do want to add my own two cents:
    The current tools we have are cool, interactive and have more effects than just "he no process as fast", I'd much rather see a mechanic where people only flat out die when they choose to ghost, and to encourage medical to stay on the ball, the longer they stay not-quite-dead, they rack up permanent brain damage to make playing after "death" have some weight to it.

    oh and slow down the rate of brain ouch. It's hilariously fast. The Brain doesn't work like that. Have you guys heard of Comas?
     
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  15. Somenerd

    Somenerd Petty Officer First Class

    Pumping them full of drugs first is what I was saying to do first anyway

    I'm saying you can scale the stasis strength according to what you feel is appropriate for that kind of thing

    Personally I'm not even for stasis bags being put back in, especially given sleepers can stasis
     
  16. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Sol Gov Pilot

    With stasis the chems would stack in his blood and "go through" twice as slow.

    The only 2 problems I see with this are :
    - playing after huge brain damages would be boring and repetitive
    - people (some of them at least) don't know how to RP medical issues (like not yelling/doing anything at all while shot then yelling to death in the ETC while they're sedated+their trauma reduces, but I digress).

    Could keep it as it is until the brain is down to 5/10%, where the dude would enter a coma and his brain death would slow down. As drawback we could do it so if you patch the brain via surgery you get moderate scarring to the brain. So first response wouldnt change much (still the challenge to get the dude to the infirmary ASAP, stabilized and if possible ready for surgery), and doctors would get more interesting cases to work on.
     
  17. Hubblenaut

    Hubblenaut Research Director

    Re-implementing stasis bags is not a necessity when you can globally adjust the rate at which a brain takes damage in order to reduce the difficulty of playing medical.

    Thus, the question of whether or not to re implement stasis bags is reduced to if people enjoy them.

    If medical is too hard for newer players, instead of adjusting the difficulty and lowering the complexity, there is also the option to provide these players with a minimal guide that, in a few sentences, gives them the most important things to know (i.e. not dragging patients, stopping bleeding, and how to provide basic first aid effectively).

    This guide should be easily accessible and be the first thing that new medical players read (even if that means to implement this guide directly into the game in one way or another).
     
    flying_loulou likes this.
  18. Rain7x

    Rain7x Game Moderator Donator

    There is one on the wiki: https://wiki.baystation12.net/Guide_to_Medicine#The_Basics
    There's a link to it that they can click in game, and can always ahelp. If they can't bother to read, I'm not a fan of encouraging that :p

    I'd like to see medicine just be nerfed across the board, as it's way too easy currently to keep people alive with all the tools we have. Most notably nanoblood going away, because it's very cheesy in my opinion.
     
  19. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Sol Gov Pilot

    Keep in mind that it's a game, it has to be fun. It turns into a massive rampage and very sad day too often already, we don't need to make it worse

    Why ? In real life (in the 21st century) we use concentrated O- blood which contains more red blood cells than average to paliate blood loss, so using "simple" o- blood onthe Torch would make it less efficient than we are nowaday, sounds quite odd. And adding this red blood cell mechanic sounds too complicated (you would need plasma implemented as well, but this is put of scope).
     
  20. ALonelyStranger

    ALonelyStranger Research Director

    This is incorrect: for cases of bloodloss, plasma transfusions are given, as blood has a short shelf life outside of a person.
    Plasma is given to provide blood pressure, generally in conjunction with hyperbaric oxygen.

    *shakes fist*