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Discussion RIG parts to robotics

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Feedback' started by BEAN, May 13, 2021.

  1. BEAN

    BEAN Bartender

    https://github.com/Baystation12/Baystation12/pull/30673

    Cracked open the ole' forum account. This pull removes RIG parts from fabrications (sci), and gives them to robotics. I expect the intention of this is because robotics can produce those RIGs that no-one uses, and this was an attempt to make them more useful. This is a bit misguided because roboticists could already make their own protolathe from their circuit printer.

    What this actually does is fuck over both departments by making fabrications even more annoying. RIG parts are currently a staple in every good research path because they provide a fairly substantial boost to levels without a material cost. Therefore, making it so sci can't make them means... Ding ding ding, robotics can't make them either. They'll get up to the matter decompiler and whatever other low-level junk unlocks around there, and levels are staying there until research gets materials. Research is probably not going to get materials, by the way.

    This leads to one of three likely scenarios when someone actually wants RIG parts:
    1: Sci and robo both tell the requester: no can do, sorry.
    2: The roboticist is competent and a tryhard, builds own protolathe, builds own DA, gets the levels, prints the thing.
    3: My personal favorite, where the scientist (S) is a tryhard and the roboticist (R) is not. This leads to something I've dubbed fabrications hopscotch.

    R to S: Guy wants a RIG but the levels are too low. Help me out.
    S: Sure thing, buddy! I'd use an old path to get them myself, but cargo doesn't even give us our material orders these days! Print me a matter decompiler and bring it here. Let's get this done.

    R prints a decompiler, runs to S. S deconstructs it and syncs, unlocking the next RIG part in the robotics fabricator.
    S: Now I need an anomaly scanner! Go get me one. Don't forget to sync.

    R runs back to robotics, syncs, prints an anomaly scanner, runs back to S, who deconstructs it and syncs, unlocking the maneuvering jets.
    S: Maneuvering jets please.

    R runs back to robotics, syncs to receive the data, prints manu-jets, runs back to S, who deconstructs it and syncs. They repeat this song and dance another 2-3 times, depending on how far they want to take it and the competence of the scientist. Remember, this shit is sequential, so they can't do it in one trip.
    ---

    This change's implications run so contrary to what I assume is the actual intent that I thought it was funny enough to post about. As an actual sci main, it doesn't really affect me: the only reason I bother maxing out fabs in the first place is so roboticists can actually play the game. Otherwise I do just enough to unlock the IC upgrade disks and leave it at that, and those are easy. Nerfing fabrications is nerfing robotics. I suggest reverting this change, since it just makes everyone's life more difficult for no gain. If robotics cares enough for RIG parts, it takes all of thirty seconds to hot-swap your second robo-fab into a protolathe. They share almost all the same parts and you can autolathe the rest. If you want to be a real MVP, you could map in a protolathe and DA for robotics so they can handle their own shit, because I sure don't want to.

    Thanks 4 reading.
     
    Vhbraz likes this.
  2. Ryan180602

    Ryan180602 Game Mooderator Game Moderator

    So, fair points. But I will attempt to explain why I made the change by giving some scenarios of what it actually is/used to be before the PR:
    1. Science, Robotics, Cargo/Command exist. Science requests resources from Cargo, Cargo delivers (because that is legitimately their gameplay loop, unlike Science, which can go do their own things and essentially forget about the fablab's existence). Science advances the techlevels because they care, Robotics gets to make their augments and exosuit things. But their nullsuit still remains unused because they still have to go and ask for RIG modules from science. If they care and don't mind using more resources for another department, they make said modules. If not, it doesn't happen.

    2. Science, Robotics, Cargo/Command exist. All the same deal happens, but this time, Science doesn't want to care about the fablab or Robotics. So, Science does their own thing and essentially ignores Robotics (something that I have actually noticed personally, not only heard from robotics players). And since Science personnel actually exist, Robotics shouldn't exactly be doing science themselves. Which would still need resources and materials. So if, according to your scenarios, cargo/command didn't do their job, they'd still be fucked.

    3. Science doesn't exist. So Robotics get nothing anyways. (This is what usually ended up happening)

    In all of these, Robotics is still getting fucked over, and mind you, this is observation from playing the past few months, where research has been absent mostly until recently. I don't blame science for not wanting to handle the fablab, because even I agree, it is truly a curse with how boring it is. I was given a good alternative of having all techlevels except the ones that give access to the truly bad things (weapons/esoteric) at 6. Which is something that I'm also willing to look into and do.

    As for the issue of supply. Even *if* cargo does not want to supply Science for whatever reason (even though, as said before, it is literally their only gameplay loop, unless it is an emergency and there's higher priorities, or Cargo doesn't exist); there is an entire second department that can handle this, as well. Command exists much more often than Science or Cargo does too, even Bridge Officers, if asked, can access the Supply Management programme and call the pod. So while making RIG modules and dismantling them is an easier process. It is not the only process.

    If it was possible, I would have kept RIG modules to both science and robotics, but I couldn't due to failed code tests. But again, I'll take a look at having Science start out at a higher level to make the fablab more bearable and give Robotics what they need. But, I still think this PR was a necessity to give Robotics what they inherently should have already access to.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  3. BEAN

    BEAN Bartender

    Yeah, I acknowledge that 3 is the most likely scenario, and always has been. Robotics suffers from an era when we tried to make interdepartmental cooperation a thing, and it's never worked. The fact that they now get a circuit printer is in itself a nail in the coffin for that particular design.

    I'm watching this poor skrell do exactly what I outlined in scenario 3 right now as I write my circuits guide, so the suck is real and things as-is are pretty much proceeding as predicted.

    If sci starts out with higher levels, I doubt anyone will care the RIG modules are missing; I only bring it up now because they're kind of necessary for ease-of-function.

    My preference is that they stay in the protolathe, and robotics receives a protolathe, as well as the proposed research boost. People delete research from time to time and it'd suck to get stalled. Plus, the egun module is the only local source of weapons-6, I believe.

    That said, if robo getting a free lathe isn't on the table, here's a secret snippet that might be of interest:

    name = "high-capacity"
    build_type = PROTOLATHE | MECHFAB <----- THIS RIGHT HERE
    id = "device_cell_high"
    req_tech = list(TECH_POWER = 2)
    materials = list(MATERIAL_STEEL = 70, MATERIAL_GLASS = 6)
    build_path = /obj/item/cell/device/high
    sort_string = "DAAAF"

    If you copypaste that into the build-type of all these parts, it shouuuuuld function correctly.