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Denied Staff complaint - Eckles_Fire/Monimus

Discussion in 'Archived Staff Complaints' started by Noreaus, Feb 1, 2021.

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  1. Noreaus

    Noreaus Assistant

    Key/Name Of Staff:
    Eckles_Fire and Monimus
    Your Key/Name:
    Date and Time of Incident(s):
    1st Feburary 2021
    ~0430 GMT

    Game ID:
    Note on identification:

    Rather than try to guess which of the admins online did this, and whether the actions were admin-intervention, I ahelped (stating, for full disclosure, that this was for a possible staff complaint) to ask the online staff whether these were admin-spawned and which admins spawned them in. Thanks to Monimus for providing the details.
    Reason For Complaint:
    There are two aspects to this complaint (and one which is background, and does not form part of the complaint, which I'll take in turn. The following events happened during a Secret Traitor round, but did not involve the traitors at all.

    Background (non-complaint)
    Spawning vending machines all over: Fine. Like, I don't like it, but it's so minor that it's just a thing. Just putting it here for completeness - the admin in question (I didn't ask in my ahelp who did this as it wasn't something I intended to complain about) was clearly having fun with spawning items in from the start of the round, by spawning vending machines throughout the Torch. This is a fairly common occurrence and not part of this complaint per se.

    Three-eye spawns - minor complaint (Spawned in by Eckles_Fire)
    Several (at least 6?) Two were turned into the bridge, another 2 apparently appeared /on/ the bridge, and two near medical - but judging by the admin announcements made I think there may have been more. Naturally I can't know for sure. When characters went into seizures due to the three-eye, an announcement was played stating "Medical emergency in: location".

    What struck me is: If a *player*, non-antag, created dangerous drugs and left them willy-nilly all over the map, this would be admin-actionable. So why is this behaviour that is acceptable from an admin - who has the added advantage of the crew having no recourse to stop this.

    Furthermore, if the defence is that this is part of an 'event' to liven up a round (though the round was /not/ Secret Extended - it was Traitor (or SpyvSpy - my point is, there were traitors) - surely an Event like that needs to have more sense than simply 'dangerous drugs left all over so people take them'. That's the kind of behaviour that, if an antag did it, we'd consider actionable, right?

    (Note - this also, later on in the round, led to at least one character gaining psychic powers)

    "Giant" Killbots spawned in on the hanger and Charon - major complaint - (Spawned in by Eckles_Fire and Monimus)
    A number of giant killer reports were spawned in the Hanger and the Charon, requiring immediately security intervention and causing numerous crew injuries. This appeared to happen for no reason. At least one explosion was apparently caused by this spawning-in (I'm uncertain about that last part - this is based mostly on post-factor observation as I was in-round at the time. I think this is a problem regardless of whether this explosion was due to the robots, however)

    I received confirmation in ahelp this these were admin-spawned.

    Spawning killbots on the Torch, with no clear reasoning behind it and not part of any coherent 'event' is, in my opinion, behaviour tantamount to griefing the playerbase - this caused a great deal of injury among the crew and required a great deal of medical attention. Again, I would not consider this to be as much of a problem if it was some kind of 'event' that made sense - I.E. the same responsibility we put on antags, not just violence for laughs.

    Finally - this was all during a Traitor round. I would understand this, a little better, in a secret-extended round (where, to my understanding, admin intervention usually goes), or to support a traitor's gimmick, but in this case it was just...random? It was particularly bad, in my view, as security were made aware (during the whole "Robots!" thing) that there was an antag who seized the cockpit of the Charon - the appearance, suddenly, of giant robots and a pitched battle disrupted the flow of the round and, in my view, was an abuse of admin powers of spawning items. I can't speak for that antag, but certainly if I'd have been an antag doing antaggery in their place, and suddenly - giant robots - I would be extremely miffed.

    In conclusion - I would urge the admins in question and/or any reviewing staff to consider whether the uses of powers detailed above meet the expectations that we don't just require of staff, but also of players - that is to say, if a player non-antag performed actions in order to have the above effects, would we accept it? I think it's clear we wouldn't.

    I don't relish making a staff complaint and generally dislike the practice of forum complaints, as it seems like airing arguments with fellow players (who happen to be staff) in public - but the system is what it is, and I would like to get a feel of what is acceptable use of admin powers, as to me this seems beyond it, but if it isn't, it would be good to establish that.
  2. Eckles

    Eckles Senior Administrator Game Administrator Skrell Species Maintainer

    Ah well. Vending machines are vending machines. Noone has to use them.

    The drugs, well, the drugs were mostly for a certain Unathi who was going on a drug related binge. The medical emergency announcements were for him specifically because he was horribly brain damaged and shouldn't really have died for it, thus letting people know to save him (which they were able to do, huzzah).

    The killbots were originally from the exoplanet awakening event. See, the thing which caused the Charon to drop shutters. Originally I stuck one on the back as it was "hitching a ride."

    I then stuck more in the back because the machete gang was about to take a hostage situation into their own hands in the front of the Charon (they eventually actually did), and I wanted to purchase some time for the antagonist to hopefully be able to resolve their problem without mass intervention, as usually happens. Alas this did not happen, and sadly the resulting chaos did not allow them to get away/engage in more antagonism. Sometimes, creating a distraction of sufficient damage for 3-4 explorers is a good way to deal with that. Not enough to kill them, but enough to be a concern.

    Generaly, don't assume things are done just for memes. Sometimes they are, but if I do things which interfere directly with how a round is going, it's usually for a good reason. I.E. Assisting an antagonist.

    The thing with the Unathi and the three-eye was merely a pleasant side-diversion for the impacted character, with minimal disruption elsewhere. As for taking three eye, not actually dangerous unless you O.D. on it. Just gives you a cool vision effect and some freaky emotes in chat.

    All in all, sorry if you felt it was just for laughs or to inconvenience you, but that mostly wasn't the case.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
  3. Spookerton

    Spookerton Public Kōhai №1 Director of Administration Head Administrator Game Administrator IPC Species Maintainer Donator

    Since I've now had to go read over this entire round log to work out what what went on;

    Generally speaking, admin tool use to affect the course of a round is expected not to negatively impact players' experiences, and not be used for personal advantage. The latter case is obviously not relevant.

    While Eckles did spawn rather a lot of three eye bottles, the only person it actually impacted in any sense mechanical was the person playing along that it was intended for in the first place - everyone else got to have something happen that was unusual, which is often the difference between a lifeless repeat round and actually being engaged.

    As far as the hivebots go, interfering with things to allow a traitor a bit of cover to do their thing can be questionable. In this case it seemed to be something that everyone actually present rather enjoyed, and which allowed the traitor to attempt their thing and fail anyway.

    Fog of war plays a part in all things. By the logs, you seem to have spent the duration of both of these occurrences investigating a pipe dive. Context is important.

    @Eckles spawn less three eye if you do a bit for a guy, they don't need to literally drown in it

    otherwise done.
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