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Submission - Armsman divisions

Discussion in 'Lore Submissions' started by flying_loulou, May 5, 2019.

  1. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    DISCLAIMER : This is NOT an attempt to revive the marines, but rather a way to finish to bury them, by giving people more fluff about the armsan divisions, their missions, traditions, organisations, et caetera. This shall have little to no impact on the current gameplay, and if it does, only by bringing “little things” on a purely fluff and lore aspects. This doesn’t bring any mechanical/structural change in the game, nor does it give a “special pass to be a rambo” to anyone playing a char with an armsman background.

    The main purpose of this thread is, as said above, to give some backstory to the fleet's naval infantry as, since the Marines were removed, the only mention is this one :
    Armsman on wiki.JPG

    A few clarifications before you go through the thread :
    - Anything between "[ ]" is a comment of mine to allow you to understand my reasoning, or just because I flet like I wanted to comment. It won't be on the wiki, shall this submission go through.
    - A bit of terminology : I refered to a pair or a 3-men fireteam as a "Team" (which would be lead by a PO3/PO2). A "group" would be the scale above the team, being led by a PO1 or a PO2, and generally an assembly of several teams (it's, however, not always the case). The "section" is the scale above the group, and is generally lead by a SNCO or a junior officer (typically a SLT/LT), depending on the size and the mission of the section.

    The armsman divisions

    Motto : “Dare and believe”

    General informations
    The armsman divisions are the naval infantry troops of the SCG Fleet. They are mainly here to support fleet operations, as the army is here to handle the planetside combat. Therefore, they are more support troops, rather than assault troops.
    Their main missions are as follows :
    • Secure areas for LZs (mainly), FOBs, field hospitals and so on (which I will call later the “ground operation” branch of the armsman divisions) .To note : the mission of such a unit sent to establish a field hospital would only be to secure the area, and install said hospital, which would be manned and worked by "normal" army/fleet medical personnel [The goal of this is to limit the missions of the Armsmen, to prevent them from being a pale copy of the marines we used to have].
    • Handle on ship security, and ship-to-ship combat [on fleet vessels only].
    • Handle CSaR (Combat Search and Rescue) missions.
    There are, in total, five armsman divisions, as there are five fleets. The first armsman division being assigned to the first fleet, the second armsan division to the second fleet, et caetera.
    Armsmen wear the navy kepi with red edging for enlisted, silver edging for NCOs, and gold edging for officers, instead of the usual covers, which they earn after a 50 km march.


    Following bootcamp and speciality (Medical technician, engineering, EOD, and so on…) training, the armsman sustains 5 weeks of intense training, mainly focused on combat, in one of the three speciality : On-ship security, CSAR missions, or “ground operations”. The training is the same for all five divisions, and happens on Earth for the "CSAR" and "Ground operation" specialities because of the wide range of climates availables on the planet. The "On-ship security" speciality training happens in orbit of the Earth, aboard a few stations and old, retired from active service space ships.

    Annex : Organisation of the different armsmen units
    Armsman Company Schema.JPG
    Armsman CSAR Schema.JPG
    The on-ship armsmen units would be organised similarly to the Torch’s security department, adapted to the size of the ship. With, eventually, some compartmentalization for the biggest ships.

    [The bellow is no longer part of the submission, it's simply a comment of mine].
    So, how will that impact the current environment of the Torch ?
    The answer is "not much", as only fleet security characters would eventually be impacted by, for example, wearing the kepi (of course they will still be allowed to wear the standard fleet cover, the berets, or nothing at all).
    Aside them, I think that the access to the "kepi" would be limited to the SEA, the fleet corpsmen and eventually the XO (understand : only those jobs would be allowed to have an armsman background). For example, it's very, very unlikely for an engineer to be an armsman, as I wouldn't expect an engineer from the naval infantry to be able to handle a ship-wide powerplant, so I guess not giving them the possibility to be an armsman sounds logical (this is also done in order to prevent a massive spread of armsmen throughout the Torch, which would be, in my opinion, a bad thing).

    Still to be done (if someone has an idea, or is willing to do it...) : Armsman divisions' insignia

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  2. The army isn’t a militia, yet you make it seem like the Armsmen are the only professional infantry that SCG have. If you want them to be seen as more elite, isn’t there a better way ?

    With the Kepis, perhaps you could follow the color scheme of the French Foreign Legion ? Navy blue kepis are....well.....ugly.

    The military only salutes one way, I find it odd that one small part of the fleet would salute differently than the majority of it.

    Are there any support units for our Armsmen lads ? Surely they can’t be making entire orbital assaults with only their /k/ommando skills and fleet bombardments.

    Either that or it needs to be clarified somewhere that the Fleet transports and supports the army in invasions alongside the naval infantry, rather than planetary defense forces as they seem to be written.

    Armsmen are also purely combat units, how would they have the training and rating requirement for becoming a Master-at-Arms ?

    Other than that, I think it’s a good idea and I feel like it just needs tweaks and edits, along with being fleshed out a bit more.
  3. BlueNexus

    BlueNexus Retired Staff

    @Outboarduniform Naval infantry aren't elites. They're regular crewmen who've been trained with how to handle weapons.
  4. turnop

    turnop Bartender

    Naval infantry, especially in a ship-based setting, probably wouldn't "support the army in invasions" beyond, as was mentioned in the OP, securing landing sites. Their primary purpose is presumably for boarding action and defense against boarding action, along with the multitude of more niche scenarios where military ships need someone to physically show up in areas where there might be angry, hostile things.

    In other words: They're armsmen, not orbital assault corps, and certainly not planetary defense.

    In the real world, it's also often part of an armsen's job to secure order on the ship and act as military police when necessary, which is generally where fleet MaAs would come from, and was talked about in the OP.
    flying_loulou likes this.
  5. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    What I mean is that according to the wiki, half of the army is the reserve, the other half being tasked to guard the Gaian DMZ (1st division) and assist in peacekeeping/planetary defense (2nd Division), while the armsman are not more nor less staffed with reservists than the rest of the Fleet. I don't intend them to be any better or worse than the "standard" fleety.

    Well a lot of Kepis are navy blue (if you only take in France : some colonial troops, Gendarmerie, firefighters) and aren't either better or worse than any other colour. Not to mention the Foreign Legion's Kepis are white for reasons (the legionaries were originally issued tan/desert kepi covers when deployed in Africa/mexico in the mid-late 19th century, but with the sun after a while the cover used to turn white. So a Legionary with a white kepi cover was known to be sort of ancient, and sure walked a lot under the sun, hence why now their kepi is white and obtained after a 100 km march, but I digress). So given the fleet uniform is navy blue I don't see why the kepy would be any different.

    That's because it's the army's job, the armsmen only secure the landing sites.

    ^ v

    In a lot of armies, master at arms and military police don't even exist (or at least not as it exists in the game) and this job is done by the on board naval infantry staff. I just kept this idea. Also, the global idea of a police "officer" that is supposedly super-qualified in law-enforcement is quite odd in my opinion, as you're not in the middle of a hot sub-urb street where you could have an idiot robbing something any time and what not. On an expeditionary (/Fleet) vessel people around you are supposed to know how to behave, to (at least) some extent.

    I did polish the original post a lot, following @Spookerton 's request (The submission is now worth ~320 words).
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  6. Noble Caos

    Noble Caos The Lorax

    Not a bad idea, and I'm not super against it cause it isn't completely like "ONE TWO THREE FOUR UNITED STATES MUHREEEEEEN CORE", but I do see the abuse potential of it. See: "I was a sniper in the CSAR and have been in 10000000000 active engagements" (Space nam vet, you get my drift)

    Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, just a thing to keep in mind, and that sorta needs to be policed by Daddies game staff.

    Other than the shitter potential though, looks decent imo.
  7. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    The idea is that you are either on-ship armsman, or in a CSAR team/"ground-ops" company. So either your job in the armsman applies to the Torch (on-ship sec, corpsman and eventually SEA/XO), or you have no reason to be there anyway (this is made on purpose). So one with a sniper background on the Torch wouldn't be lore-friendly at all (and should/would be treated as a GCC meme playing spess-USSR for example).
    Noble Caos likes this.
  8. F-Tang Steve

    F-Tang Steve Developer Serpentid Species Maintainer

    What's the gameplay goal for this change? What will it add that differs from the current experiences available on the torch?
  9. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    None or next to none (see my quote bellow). The goal of this is to give some fluff to something that already exists (the armsman division), not to add a new branch or a new "faction" on the Torch. Also in the mean time if it can prevent one to write "Was machinegunner in the armsman divisions" (currently, nothing prevents it and I did see it once this month for sure) in his employement records, well that's even better.

    As said above, mainly fluff, some more background possibilities, add some diversity. Nothing star-spangle awesome, just some more lore elements one can use (or not) for his characters.

    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  10. F-Tang Steve

    F-Tang Steve Developer Serpentid Species Maintainer

    Right, so if it won't much impact the torch or gameplay, how does it benefit the server?
  11. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    By giving more depth to the lore (exactly the same way than adding some lore to a planet would, for example), and therefore allowing the characters using this lore to look more realistic, more believable.
    Also given the lore gives 0 informations about the armsmen, one can claim anything and its contrary for his char if he decides so, this would unify it.

    In the mean time (not the main goal but it's a "positive side effect", let's say) it would give some basis to people that decided to use the "armsman" as background (or rather, prevent people from using those type of backgrounds when they're not supposed to, and make it so those that could use it do it in a sane and lore-friendly way). The staff would be given a "framework"(not sure that's how I'm supposed to use this word in english) to work with to enforce the lore in regards of this type of background.
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
    Sparkyninja and turnop like this.
  12. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    (Just saying that even if I've been off-grid for the past... 2 months or so, this is still being submitted and I do keep an eye on the Forum 'till I come back in... another month or so).
  13. Eckles

    Eckles Senior Administrator Game Administrator Skrell Species Maintainer

    Okay. So.

    My main problem with this is it's a bit brief, doesn't really expand on the lore so much as it just adds some technical org stuff for it. Which has no use or utility to anyone outside of a brief line on a character record without really providing anything for background building beyond that.

    Don't really want to make infantry security. Police and infantry are not the same thing.

    The kepi, eh, doesn't really go with any other uniform stylings currently in use, bit of a random force-in from French uniform stuff as a standalone that doesn't fit with the rest of the headwear.

    It's also very thin on what it adds beyond some rather sizeable layout charts. It goes from very little to very unnecessary detail. Not really looking to add something like this.
  14. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    It was originally judged too fluffy by spookerton, which is why I did make it (much much) smaller, I'm working on a better and more interesting version, but to guide me a bit, what would you like me to develop more (or should I just drop the idea ? up to you).

    As for the Kepi, to be honest I also thought about a garrisson cap, or a dedicated beret, or whatever headcover. I dont want to make them have a whole uniform just for them, but simply to give them a simple distinctive sign.
  15. Eckles

    Eckles Senior Administrator Game Administrator Skrell Species Maintainer

    Frankly I don't feel in its current form it really adds anything, it's a lot of detail for something not represented in-game at all. It's one of those things that needs a paragraph on a page somewhere at most, and not mounds of detail.
  16. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    Fine by me, you can close this submission. (if you want to keep whatever of this to stick it somewhere, feel free to).