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Suggestion Take RDs off chain of succession

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Feedback' started by Chinsky, Nov 30, 2018.

  1. Chinsky

    Chinsky Indentured Coder Developer

    RDs are 3rd in chain of succession of command.
    It was done for OOC reasons of 'otherwise civilians will be OPPRESSED'.
    I believe it's dumb for both IC and OOC reasons.
    OOCly I think people who join as RD want to run whole ship even less than any other shmuck that gets forced into acting command.
    ICly it's weird that in the middle of government folk chain there's a corporate dude.

    What think
  2. Persona E

    Persona E Senior Enlisted Advisor

    Seconding this. The few times I've been able to reach a research director over radio, they're rarely interested in taking command.
  3. Spookerton

    Spookerton Public Kohai № 1 Staff Manager Manager Senior Administrator Community Moderator Donator

    Thumbs up, needed this for a long time anyway.
  4. Faustico

    Faustico Petty Officer First Class

    I'd prefer them to be a 'last resort' option over dropping them from the succession entirely.
    Za_Redman, Blue_Bit and Banditoz like this.
  5. Tristan63

    Tristan63 Sol Gov Pilot

    Chief Medical Officer since they can be O4 should be third in line. I too have witnessed RDs attempting on multiple occasions to refuse their command of the vessel. Leave RDs as Captains of the Petrov, not the Torch.
  6. Hephasto

    Hephasto Senior Administrator Game Administrator

    RD being in the chain of succession has never sat right with me and I would not shed a single tear if it was changed.
  7. Rowtree

    Rowtree Sol Gov Pilot

    As an RD, I do not care about being ROIC and would prefer it to be left to more capable people.

    So long as their authority on scientific matters remains the same, I have no real issue with this change and am all for it.
  8. afterthought

    afterthought Developer

    I've argued in favor of this previously. I'm in favor. The relevant skillsets seem too unrelated to me for it to make sense.
    Tristan63 likes this.
  9. Sabira

    Sabira Head Developer Donator

    I'll have to see a very good argument about why a manager like the research director is less fit to manage a ship than anyone else in command before this happens.
    Banditoz likes this.
  10. RD can be a 100% civilian dude/lass (or a xeno even) who has no military experience whatsoever and is more used to managing a lab. They might be entitled to make decisions as a last ditch measure, but /any/ naval officer is more capable when it comes to, well, issuing orders, running the ship, military protocol and such. And being an acting CO is exactly that. Especially now that the gubmint has to initiate first contact, not some corporate goon with questionable loyalties.

    OOCly RDs only use their newly aquired rank to move Torch to new sites, that's it. They don't engage with crew much.

    I support chinky's resolution, no matter he lowers RDs status on the chain of command or removes them from CoC entirely.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
    Tristan63 and Sbotkin like this.
  11. Tristan63

    Tristan63 Sol Gov Pilot

    Adding on to what Lizard said, what exactly does the RD have in terms of qualifications to direct a Starship competently? Sure they may know everything about the ship, and their Petrov and could translate it into commanding ability on the Torch, but they most likely have never had the chance to command such a vessel as the Torch. Relating to another thread, the RD can also be an alien WHICH in the eyes of Solgov would be a tricky situation. The SEV Torch is a HUMAN ship, it is one of the first to ever be equipped with a BS drive and has discovered loads of things in its travels. To think it would become another races ship simply due to a chain of command being followed might break the will of some who fought to acquire this technology in the first place.

    The SEV Torch doesn't need civilians running its military and expeditionary personnel who may know nothing about either.
    Thank you.
  12. LorenLuke

    LorenLuke Commanding Officer

    If the problem is that so few RDs want to take command, then this will change nothing except in the instances where those that do wish to and have opportunity to, cannot.

    The problem resolves itself as of this were in place except for those times, anyway, so it's a non-issue there, and for those where you'd have an RD who wants to be in charge, it removes that option and opportunity from the players, which is something I do not think should be embraced as a principle.

    Levyafan and Karbivio like this.
  13. Karbivio

    Karbivio Bartender

    I think it's completely reasonable that the RD has priority over other heads of staff on code green. What this implies is that the Torch is under no duress and is doing what it should normally be doing: researching and exploring, both of which are the RD's forte. It's also worth noting that the Torch is not a military ship. Whether or not they have military experience is irrelevant to taking command; the EC has been described to me as more akin to boy scouts than the Fleet or the Army, even. In the event that something does happen where the RD's skillset is no longer relevant (mercs boarding, traitors bombing, a blob appearing, etc), they can raise the alert and ROIC will go to an individual more qualified to deal with emergencies. The line of succession is fine and reasonable as it is now.
  14. SierraKomodo

    SierraKomodo Command Keyword Detected

    This is the key component a lot of people miss. The common playerbase doesn't seem to realize that different alert codes put other line officers above the RD in the line of succession.
  15. afterthought

    afterthought Developer

    The current setup implies that the RD has, specifically, ship operations experience. Has nothing to do with code levels, antags, or so on. The RD here is assumed to have competence in stellar navigation, logistics/supply management, maneuvers, various equipment, military and EC structure/personnel management/discipline, etc. The day to day operations of the Torch feature a bunch of specialized and routine astronautical stuff, not just science and random crises. Is it impossible that they have this skill set? No, of course not. It's just surprising, as their other, primary, duty does not require any of these skills, so it seems strange and suboptimal that they are selected for them in particular.

    Why are random EC/fleet officers, like CE or CMO, say, better suited despite also being specialized differently? Well, because their (high-ranked) officer status suggests they are competent in generic EC/fleet officer stuff, which would include specifically the things I describe above. Some may be more so (engineering/sec heads), some less so (CMO), but all of them have had some additional training and experience with vessel management. Unlike the RD, they rank highly in an organization largely dedicated to running and maintaining spacefaring vessels.
    Spookerton, Persona E and Rowtree like this.
  16. EC might not be exactly military, but it's still very much a uniformed organisation with SOP very different from corporate code. If anything, Sol Rep should have more say, especially since they are, lorewise, a gubmint bureacrat with considerable control powers.

    As for the current state of RD, it is a clear leftover from Exodus days. These days we have Corporate Liason (doing nothing barring occasional paperwork since RD is essentially the administrator in command) and Senior Researchers. Honestly, there isn't much for RD to do on green.
    Spookerton and Persona E like this.
  17. Hubblenaut

    Hubblenaut Research Director

    I don't feel strong either way, though the reason that the RD does usually simply not want to take command often also applies to the CoS, CMO and CE. It might be best to simply go with what would ICly make the most sense.

    What is with the two arguments pointed out in the OP?
  18. Bramzter

    Bramzter Chef

    As a RD player most of the time i have no issue with this change. It makes not sense and shifts where i am forced into command i spend most of the time running from crisis to crisis on the ship that makes me negelect my department or i just focus on my department and fail at keeping tabs on comand channel. I would be glad the responsibility is to go to someone else
    Spookerton likes this.