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The Importance of Recognizing Ranks

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by St. Jemmy, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. St. Jemmy

    St. Jemmy Assistant

    Hey all, I just wanted to make this post as a reminder, since it may be something overlooked by people who never served in the military.
    The other day there was an incident (that I won't get into, the matter was resolved) involving a bridge officer and SEA. Admittedly it can be quite confusing, which inspired me to make this post.

    Since this is a heavy roleplay server involving military RP, it's incredibly important to make sure you understand your own rank and the ranks of those you're speaking to.

    All officer ranks (O-1 to O-10) are above all enlisted ranks (E-1 to E-9).

    While realistically O-1s are inexperienced and would be wise to listen to the experienced enlisted (such as an E-9), that does not mean that an E-9 outranks any officer, even if they are more experienced. As such, E-9s are still obligated to follow the orders of O-1s and treat them with respect, and are subject to the SCUJ and can be NJP'd for violating it! I've seen it happen!

    When dealing with Fleet matters always check the rank of the person you're talking to!

    Hope this was helpful and in the correct section of the forum!
    samsone700 and Tristan63 like this.
  2. Persona E

    Persona E Game Administrator

    Great tip OP, I'd also link and for those who find this reminder useful.

    I think it's helpful to point out, even for people who do know the basic rank system, that you should always recognize which rank your character's interacting with and consider how that would change their behavior. You'd do the same with a non-military character, acting differently around their boss than they do around friends.

    I hope you're not still upset that my SEA told you you shouldn't wear a plate carrier over your service uniform and that all the officers on bridge told you not to argue with the SEA, since that was 24 hours ago. I think it's easy to see that, disagree with it, and assume people think the E-9 outranks the officer. (Though the officer in that case wasn't wearing their ranks at all, so who could have known.)

    That's what makes senior NCOs so fun to play, in my opinion, there is a different relationship you have with junior officers and senior officers, and both are fun to play out. For instance, I tend to be careful to word things as advice or judgements rather than orders if I'm playing Ally and telling an officer they should do something, with the voice used changing based on rank.
  3. Tristan63

    Tristan63 Senior Enlisted Advisor

    A reminder that E9s can advise junior officers on alternative actions rather than carrying out orders blindly. But a good tip for everyone!

    Albens likes this.
  4. St. Jemmy

    St. Jemmy Assistant

    @Persona E, as I said in the OP, the matter was resolved and I have no intention of arguing it again even if I disagree with the resolution. Though I will say that during the incident there was some confusion and it seemed that some characters believed I was speaking to a superior officer and punished me accordingly.

    I didn't realize until I was about to log on earlier today that SEA was in fact enlisted instead of an officer, which prompted me to make the post since it seems an easy mistake to make considering the nature of SEA's role on the ship. I honestly just made this post because military RP is such an integral part of the server currently and it's something that shouldn't be overlooked.

    @Tristan63 Definitely! Ensigns should absolutely take the advice of the higher ranking enlisted! They have a lot of experience to learn from! But for technical and judicial purposes, they are still outranked by Ensigns and there's only so much leeway that experience can get you. Though I would call it unwise for an Ensign immediately start pulling rank on an E-9 lol
    Tristan63 likes this.
  5. Wmeacham

    Wmeacham Assistant

    And Junior officers to Senior officers as well respectvely.
    Albens likes this.
  6. Roland410

    Roland410 Petty Officer First Class

    The only thing I'd put here is, that while Fleet is more mil-RP, EC people also have their ranks and even if more lax, you probably shouldn't mouth back or disobey someone above you, for example XPLs to SXPL or CXPL. They can easily pull rank, and you WILL be subject to SCUJ just as Fleet would be.
    OndraLukas likes this.
  7. spessCarp

    spessCarp Chef

    I’d totally wear rank hud glasses so I don’t have to examine everyone constantly.
    samsone700, Wmeacham and YodaDoge like this.
  8. Pepega_lad

    Pepega_lad Bartender

    I can totally see that being an NJP. Just imagine you forget to call someone by their ranks and the SEA tells you "Ok, since you keep on forgetting the ranks we'll have you wear these glasses until you've learned them by memory"
    Wmeacham and YodaDoge like this.
  9. restricted

    restricted Deputy Unathi Maintainer

    I personally know e7s who don't salute o1s. No huge consequence. No fucking njp. Real world perspective, the salt on a senior snco is worth a lot more than the butterbar who will probably wash out. Want a SEA to respect your butterbar? Earn it.

    That said, a basic degree of respect should be given in public. What happens behind closed doors or in the bridge is another matter. A CO is almost always going to go to bat for their SEA over their boot ass butterbar.
  10. Albens

    Albens Sol Gov Pilot

    Are we pretending that all- even a majority of SEA's- play like they're intended?
    I think you've lost perspective of what ranks mean on Bay.
    You picked a rank the same as that O1 did. On the job selection screen. You could literally go from O1 to E8 and people would sigh at you.

    Good SEA players demonstrate their rank through their behavior and actions.
    You're the Senior Enlisted Advisor, you need to be Experienced, Enlisted, and an Advisor.

    The people who are supposed to use your experience aren't going to approach you.
    No one believes you have experience- only that you're a dick.
    These SEA players sit in the corner of the Bridge making snide comments, before going to their office to SSD because no one wants to interact with them.
    And that's generally for the best.

    Also, there are more O1 mains than E8 mains.
    People go to bat for those they know, because rank on Bay isn't the same thing as rank in real life.
  11. How would contractors deal with those who are ranked? I remember once there was an entire argument between a SalTech and the Pathfinder and Pathfinder pulled rank and kept calling SalTech "contractor".
  12. Original Name

    Original Name Bartender

    I went on the Wiki, taking a look at all the different regulation articles, and found this under Corporate Regulations:

    • "The research director has total authority over EXO employees.
    • The senior researcher acts as a second in command, and takes over in the Chief Science officer's absence. The Pathfinder takes over in the event both are unavailable.
    • In the absence of a research director,senior researcher or pathfinder, the next ranking officer assumes their duties in a temporary, provisional fashion.
    • Only the Board of Directors may appoint a corporate liaison.
    • The corporate liaison is not an any form of internal affairs and is not a member of the board of directors."

    Therefore, the Pathfinder could issue an order to you as a contractor if the Senior Researcher are unavailable, whether this means completely incapable of giving orders or just in a different area at the time is up for interpretation.