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TTVs - A nerf to the non-traitor variety

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Feedback' started by QuestioningMark, May 7, 2019.

  1. QuestioningMark

    QuestioningMark Bartender

    So this is a thread regarding my feedback to the power of certain TTV bombs available to mercs, pirates, raiders and heisters off the bat.

    Very simply speaking, they cause so much damage that 1 of them takes literally an hour to repair, destroys a 12x12 area constituting 144 tiles and basically shreds most subsystems while usually causing such long-lasting atmo issues that the ship can't recover.

    I'm all for bombs sometimes being a component of RP, but given the nature and inherent extreme combativeness of these antagonist varieties perhaps giving them bombs that will quite literally turn engineering into nothing but a point and click floor tile and pipe replacement service for the remainder of the round is a bit extreme.

    So, I'm simply saying they should be bought in line with the traitor uplink versions that don't erase decks and just cause moderate bang.

    I mean sure, the mercs/raiders/pirates could still go and build a bomb that powerful again by gathering together resources, but frankly, at least they showed some effort then rather than plucking one out the uplink, pelting it through an airlock and taking out literally 1/3rd of a deck.

  2. Somenerd

    Somenerd Petty Officer First Class

    I think another issue is the fact that bombs hit multiple decks, so you often end up with damage on other decks too.

    I'd like it if you could get a horizontal ttv and a vertical, horizontal doing more damage on the deck you're on and vertical doing more to decks above and below
  3. Albens

    Albens Sol Gov Pilot

    Bombs don't blow up, vertically. That's intentional
  4. Somenerd

    Somenerd Petty Officer First Class

    Oh? Fairly sure I've seen some damage the deck below them
  5. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    That's because it blows the deck it's on, and therefore, pierce the roof above you if you are the deck below, but you're not supposed to be hurt if you're underneath it, unless you like... recieve a crate on top of your head or something.

    Yet yes, nerfing a bit the TTVs, or making them more rare/harder to make sounds like a good idea.
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  6. samsone700

    samsone700 Petty Officer First Class

    Are TTV's really that easy to make though? Coming from a player of 4 years I still don't understand how to make it properly. I believe the issue is more concerning the TTV's that merc and pirates sometimes spawn with?
  7. QuestioningMark

    QuestioningMark Bartender

    If you don't know how to make it, and your characters skills reflect it, is that not more a representation that perhaps your character isn't a very capable explosives crafter?

    To further this, it's rather simple. Get a tank transfer valve from the vendor for them, get the appropriate tanks, and get something to trigger it.
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  8. samsone700

    samsone700 Petty Officer First Class

    Don't you need to heat the phoron or something first?
  9. Roland410

    Roland410 Petty Officer First Class

    You do if you want it to to boom.
  10. El Robusto

    El Robusto Chef

    With how broken to hell toxin research is at the moment, it's practically impossible to make your own TTV bomb. If you think it's THAT easy (just mash phoron and oxy tanks together), it's totally not, and you have probably never made one. Unless there are proper and working facilities for bombmaking and tons of rework put into toxins research, I'm strongly against this proposal.
    SparklySheep and samsone700 like this.
  11. flying_loulou

    flying_loulou Senior Enlisted Advisor

    Right, let me rephrase : it's not that easy to make a TTV, yet when you can make 1, you can usually make 2, 3, or 4 quite as fast and without further efforts. And given a single TTV already fucks the round up for the whole engineering team, imagine my face when I hear the second or the third explosion (usually this happens when a tator decides he won't be caught today, or when the merc/heist team gets wiped but their survivors decide to still bother the Torch because reasons, but I digress).

    So to sum up : TTVs, as they currently are, aren't fun for anyone aside the one that makes it go boom (it's quite satisfactory, I must admit).
    For engineering : it gives them something to do (which is nice), but it kills any opportunity for them to RP (...on a HRP server), because they're busing laying pipes, cables, tiles and whatnot (less nice, uh ?).
    For medical : Hurray, traumas, broken bones and splattered guts (because your patient is either several levels of dead (burnt to death or simply gibbed to heaven), or the wounds are generally minor).
    For security : well there is nothing to work with, so it's not fun either, and honestly catching someone laying TTVs is lame, because you hardly have a lead (perhaps make a "TTV Wreck" with a little chance for the forensic to find the prints/fibers of the bomber ?), you can hardly react, aside"well, it blew up", and after the 2nd or the 3rd bomb it's just utterly annoying (because you're just sweeping the whole ship like a bunch of lemons but it's very, very easy to hide in the Torch).
    For supply : "nuh-huh I gotta order 4 crates of steel and plasteel" (which, by the way, lowers the ammount of points available, jeopardizing research in the mean time).

    So honestly, in my opinion, reworking the TTVs (I don't know how to, though) doesn't sound like a bad idea.
    asinglespessman likes this.
  12. QuestioningMark

    QuestioningMark Bartender

    I think we're detracting from the original post here a little. The nature of TTV's and how they are used is all fair and dandy and a discussion in its own. I'd even say that its one that needs to happen. I still believe that most bombs could be made if people just say... made fuel tank based devices, gas tank based devices or plenty of others.

    However I have specifically raised the issue with the max capped, deck deleting, merc/raider/pirate ones in this post. I am not aiming for a total removal of TTV's, merely a nerf in the max cap deck deleter.

    @El Robusto Are you entirely against the nerfing of the deck deleter? If so, could you explain your reasoning?
  13. El Robusto

    El Robusto Chef

    Okay, so security and command tend to meta a lot of things involuntarily, like knowing that someone's weapon won't do much damage, therefore the person can be taken down without paying too much attention to roleplay. I don't blame them for this, as I understand it's hard to play the same situation over and over again without applying any meta knowledge. But if we start reducing destructive properties of weapons, things might get even worse. Like if the TTV stops being a real problem and only busts a bunch of tiles around, people will automatically perceive a bomb threat as something less important. I didn't witness it myself, but I've heard that during the short period of time that the traitor TTV was nerfed, it was meta'd upon heavily, because of how little damage it did upon explosion. So yes, this is my opinion, I'm strongly against nerfing of any explosive devices unless there is some work put into it to make it possible to produce aboard the Torch.

    By the way, TTVs were never available to raiders, it only spawns on the merc shuttle and can be obtained via the uplink. You're probably thinking this way because of the recent Merc-Raider round where a team of raiders spawned together with a single merc.
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  14. SparklySheep

    SparklySheep Retired Staff

    You know, I miss the days of over-buffing everything. It made the game really exciting and funny.

    One of my favorite moments in the game was when SkyMarshall would always mail a bomb to engineering as a traitor, my character shouting out "Oooh a package", and then the inevitable explosion as half the department exploded.

    Stuff like that doesn't happen anymore and it makes me sad.
  15. Spookerton

    Spookerton Head Administrator Director of Administration Head Administrator Game Administrator IPC Species Maintainer Donator

    @flying_loulou false. Explosions propagate in both directions by default and TTV explosions do not override that.

    @El Robusto The current state of traitor TTVs is the nerfed state and has been for two months. People complained when they were briefly made identical to the merc bombs. This discussion is also about merc bombs - toxins is irrelevant. :B
  16. El Robusto

    El Robusto Chef

    Alright, I get it now, the current traitor TTV is the nerfed one. Doesn't change what I've heard about it doing little to no damage.
    What I was trying to convey here is what the author of the original post suggests cannot be done as of right now, because of how utterly broken the bombmaking system is. Unless that system is fixed and adjusted, and a proper and thoroughly tested toxins facility is introduced (I'm not talking about the atrocity that is current Petrov toxins lab) the TTVs that mercs get should stay the same way, because you can't produce them, no matter what you do. If someone takes care of this then of course, they can be nerfed or taken away from the merc shuttle completely, which will encourage them to make their own bombs, if they really want to blow something up.