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Why isn't votesway an actual rule?

Discussion in 'Policy Discussion' started by ZeroBits, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. ZeroBits

    ZeroBits Deputy Vox Maintainer

    Almost every admin enforces it as one, and it's frowned upon. I feel like it sort of got skipped over when we were adding "unwritten rules" to the actual rules. Because if anything is an unwritten rule, it's voteswaying.
     
  2. Lonefly

    Lonefly Donator

    Because it doesn't need to be added. It's called "listen to admins" when they tell you not to do a thing. It gets noted down, and if you don't listen again then you aren't listening to admins. Not everything needs to be written down, we aren't a legal system.
     
  3. ParadoxSpace

    ParadoxSpace Mr. Roboto Game Moderator IPC Species Maintainer

    I hate it as a rule, and I wish we'd get rid of it.
    One, players can think for themselves. Most people probably won't be swayed by votesway. If they do, so what? That's their choice. They chose to vote for that mode, probably thinking 'yeah meteor does sound good right now.' The worst issue is 'OOC will be spammed!'
     
    Dukica likes this.
  4. Meyar

    Meyar Retired Worstmin 2015-2017

    Weren't we told to stop enforcing that or whatever
     
  5. Crushtoe

    Crushtoe Retired Staff

    Letting me from Discord speak for me.
    upload_2017-11-18_22-16-15.png
     
    Novus Luna, Manored and SierraKomodo like this.
  6. Lonefly

    Lonefly Donator

  7. Crushtoe

    Crushtoe Retired Staff

    upload_2017-11-18_22-23-9.png
    If I need to explain any further I'll let Forum me explain instead of Discord me for the sake of not taking up huge amounts of screen space.
     
    Manored and SierraKomodo like this.
  8. ZeroBits

    ZeroBits Deputy Vox Maintainer

    Someone shouldn't have to break a rule before knowing it exists.
     
    Virgil, Manored, TcOne and 1 other person like this.
  9. LorenLuke

    LorenLuke Commanding Officer

    Bullshit, it don't. A player getting noted for doing something they didn't even know about would be an asinine consequence for such things and demonstrates poorly thought out rule structure in general.

    "Listen to admins" is the catch-all rule when powers that be have been legally or logically out-manoeuvred by someone and they require the person to stop behavior immediately.

    If I wanted to see someone pull out 'because I said so' at the drop of a hat, I'd argue with my parents a lot more.
     
  10. The Great Skeeve

    The Great Skeeve Sol Gov Pilot

    1. write the rules down
    2. ???
    3. profit

    This whole "nobody is going to read through a bunch of a rules" is dumb, if they break a rule, politely nudge them about it. Congrats! The rule is written down and nobody has any excuses (or can add / remove additional supplements onto the rule as they please...)
    https://wiki.baystation12.net/Rules
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
  11. Sergeant Adam

    Sergeant Adam Game Moderator

    I don't see why it'd be such a giant pain in the ass to add it. The only reason I can see people not wanting to is just out of pure stubbornness. It's clearly a rule that you're not supposed to votesway, and you can get boinked for it. If it's added, and at least ONE person actually reads through the rules to the point of seeing it, then that's one guy that staff won't have to waste their time with.
     
  12. Earthcrusher

    Earthcrusher SMASHER/DEVOURER Game Administrator

    Holy shit why are we making a grand display of not writing it down? Just write it down, it will take you ten seconds.
     
    LorenLuke and Dukica like this.
  13. StrategicImportance

    StrategicImportance Senior Enlisted Advisor

    Always wondered why some of the rules aren't in. I mean, most of us know about voteswaying being bad, but when someone does not and then votesways, surely you bwoink him or tell him in OOC to not do it, but it's already too late.

    /tg/ has this nice page of rules with examples in it:
    https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules
    Can we have something like that?
     
  14. SierraKomodo

    SierraKomodo Command Keyword Detected

    As a mod, I personally don't care if this stays as a policy or gets scrapped. All I care about is it being actually written somewhere if we're going to be enforcing it. A policy that's unwritten but enforced causes people to start complaining/arguing about how what we're enforcing isn't actually a rule, and pulling the 'The rules say listen to staff' card always feels like a bit of a dick move in scenarios like this.

    My job is to enforce the rules, as they're written.
     
  15. TheLier

    TheLier Senior Enlisted Advisor

    I would be fine with this rule being removed, really. Just kick asses if someone spams. Other than that, I guess we can trust ourselves to withstand "Urist McGreytide: VOTE NUNJA" in OOC.
     
  16. F-Tang Steve

    F-Tang Steve Game Administrator Developer Serpentid Species Maintainer Deputy IPC Maintainer Deputy Diona Maintainer Wiki Maintainer

    Some of the modes are broken though, especially for add antag. Removing it would let people say that. Also it'd let people try to plan for merc or whatever when there are enough people.
     
  17. CrimsonShrike

    CrimsonShrike Sol Gov Pilot

    I don't understand, if people want to band together to vote for a mode that is played less often, or say a mode may not work, or that it's broken, seems fair. So long they don't spam ooc too much. So, either remove it or write it in stone.
     
    Dukica and SalTum like this.
  18. Alfa1561

    Alfa1561 Senior Enlisted Advisor

    When I was new I voteswayed and never knew it was wrong because it wasn't in the rules. I was promptly told not to do but also received a note in my admin history or whatever. I always found it bizarre that when I went back over the rules I couldn't find the rule I'd apparently missed. I also don't understand why it's a rule (or not a rule I guess). People have their own minds and can decide what they want. Literally nothing wrong with doing it, I hardly see how it detracts from anything at all. Also, don't have "common sense" rules or anything of the sort. That's fucking retarded. If you're going to have a rule you want to enforce, write it down or don't try enforce it. A new player can't abide by "listen to admins" when he's followed the rules exactly and still managed to break them because people were lazy and neglected to write down what they want to ban. Seriously. It would be common sense that you WOULD write down any rule you want to enforce. Anything else is just clear stupidity and a blanket "listen to admins" doesn't cut it. Evident enough when you have people getting admin notes for votesway without it being a rule.
     
    Dukica, LorenLuke and Blazerules like this.
  19. If a mode is broken, why is it even on the list of the stuff you can vote for?
     
    SierraKomodo likes this.
  20. RenScorch

    RenScorch Donator

    The votesway rule is what happens when you have a rule of "listen to admins." rule. An admin don't like something, makes a vocal ruling to make others stop it, other admins silently enforce it when that admin is on an before you know it, it becomes an unspoken rule. It like mmmmmaaaaaggggiiiiccc.